65 Waggy 4bt swap

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Yeller
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Location: Rogers County Oklahoma

Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Yeller » Tue Nov 09, 2021 11:45 am

LOL we don't have a grid heater in ours as well, its always started into the teens just fine. A grid heater is not a difficult add if you determine it necessary, However with your P-pump engine I doubt you have any issues getting it to start without a grid heater, they cold start really well. My old hoe has a Lucas pump, they are known for not cold starting as well, unless its on a Perkins.... LOL

Have the same pump on my Massey Ferguson tractor and it starts like you never shut it off no matter how cold it is.
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod

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BaldBeardedBastard
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by BaldBeardedBastard » Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:49 pm

Looking forward to hearing more about your build! I am keenly interested in your vintage air mock up, as I think that's on the roadmap for mine.

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jaber
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by jaber » Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:19 am

I love my Vintage Aire, was well worth the money.
I tend to be impatient, so if the night Temps are going to be below 40f, I will plug my block heater in just to make it happier when I jump in. I always give it 5-10 mins of idle in the morning, but my 24 valve runs noticeably better.
It sounds like you are not too far from me.
Jeff

'46 cj3a
'51 Willys p/u
'51 Willys Parkway Conversion
'74 CJ5
'75 J-20 Wrecker
'75 J-20 Cummins service truck
'77 J-10 p/u
'79 Cherokee
'88 Grand Wagoneer
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/jeffaber/


5jeepsaz
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by 5jeepsaz » Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:55 am

Great build @pablo . I've got a 64 J300. Getting a donor head installed, then almost done. I'm looking for exactly those metal light casings mounted on the roof of your original photo. Any idea what they are? Good luck on your great build. Paul

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Pablo
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:15 am

BaldBeardedBastard wrote:
Fri Nov 12, 2021 9:49 pm
Looking forward to hearing more about your build! I am keenly interested in your vintage air mock up, as I think that's on the roadmap for mine.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk
We had a Vintage Air Magnum mock up unit and fit it under the dash and it appeared to have plenty of room there-- even accounting for a roll cage tying tot he firewall. So, I pulled the trigger and ordered it. When it gets here, I am going to reverse engineer the HVAC's ECU and hook it to my Android head unit to control it without having to use a physical controller (but I will have an under the dash controller I can mount if it comes to it). After that, it will get installed at some point...
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

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Pablo
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:17 am

jaber wrote:
Sat Nov 13, 2021 7:19 am
I love my Vintage Aire, was well worth the money.
I tend to be impatient, so if the night Temps are going to be below 40f, I will plug my block heater in just to make it happier when I jump in. I always give it 5-10 mins of idle in the morning, but my 24 valve runs noticeably better.
It sounds like you are not too far from me.
I am up in the White Mountains, so about the same environment. Maybe a bit colder.
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

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Pablo
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:26 am

5jeepsaz wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:55 am
Great build @pablo . I've got a 64 J300. Getting a donor head installed, then almost done. I'm looking for exactly those metal light casings mounted on the roof of your original photo. Any idea what they are? Good luck on your great build. Paul
I know the center search light is available from police and ambulance outfitters (the center one that swivels). I think the cases to the other two are probably from the same manufacturer of the search light and could probably be found at the same locations. If they are not from the same manufacturer, they are probably 80's era KC Daylighter stuff or similar. The last time that vehicle ran and was registered was 1988 according to the tags, so it is certainly not later than that.

If the Jeep were up here and not in Phoenix, I would offer to remove and sell them to you-- but I don't have easy access right now and if I take the mounts off I have to plug the holes left or deal with the roof leaking (which isn't gonna happen since that parts jeep is where I store FSJ swag, i.e. old junk ). I am shocked that those tires still hold air. It has never been on blocks and hasn't gone anywhere without a tow truck since 89.
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)


5jeepsaz
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:07 am

Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by 5jeepsaz » Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:03 pm

Pablo wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 9:26 am
5jeepsaz wrote:
Sun Nov 14, 2021 11:55 am
Great build @pablo . I've got a 64 J300. Getting a donor head installed, then almost done. I'm looking for exactly those metal light casings mounted on the roof of your original photo. Any idea what they are? Good luck on your great build. Paul
I know the center search light is available from police and ambulance outfitters (the center one that swivels). I think the cases to the other two are probably from the same manufacturer of the search light and could probably be found at the same locations. If they are not from the same manufacturer, they are probably 80's era KC Daylighter stuff or similar. The last time that vehicle ran and was registered was 1988 according to the tags, so it is certainly not later than that.

If the Jeep were up here and not in Phoenix, I would offer to remove and sell them to you-- but I don't have easy access right now and if I take the mounts off I have to plug the holes left or deal with the roof leaking (which isn't gonna happen since that parts jeep is where I store FSJ swag, i.e. old junk ). I am shocked that those tires still hold air. It has never been on blocks and hasn't gone anywhere without a tow truck since 89.
I'm in phoenix. How buried is it? I would take all those lights if reasonable ... been looking for a couple years is why I would ask. Even bought a set of ones from back east but when they got here they were plastic! Lol. Let me know if you get around to it? I have determined that marchal lights are closest to oem but they cost a ton and are hard to find. The KC ones I will find this winter at a show or yard sale if lucky, so that is current plan. Yours are perfect since somebody cut them all in. Thanks, Paul

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Pablo
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:39 pm

So I am going to start working on an Android application to control the Vintage air unit via an Arduino controller. I am still waiting for the Vintage Air unit, but it is on its way. In the meantime, I mocked up a storyboard for the touchscreen HVAC controller application:

Image

Edit:

So I should probably elaborate a bit here. The "Heater on" message tells you the blend door for heat is open or that the heater control valve is actively sending hot coolant to the core and that the unit is actively heating. If the AC is on, a similar snowflake and "A/C ON" message is shown. I am presuming that short of defost, these two things should not happen at the same time-- and they display in the same location because of that. Maybe that is not a safe assumption-- I had a sad Volvo 240 DL in high school that had other ideas in July in Phoenix.

Items in teal are controls that the user can manipulate. In this case, the fan speed, the vent directional controls, heated seats, and desired temperature.

Desired temperature bears some more discussion. Since I can add an internal thermometer-- I can use that to control the amount that I turn on the Vintage Air unit. More if the delta is too off-- or less if it is right on. From what I can see on-line, the VA unit controls are specific to volume of output of heat or AC-- they are not temperature in the vehicle. If anyone knows, let me know. My Vintage Air is still on order.

The partly cloudy symbol and the high and low temperatures would come from a feed over cell service or may be an embedded application widget. I probably won't use these features myself as I don't trust an Android phone to be on the interwebs unsupervised, let alone a Chinese made Android head unit. But they are there if someone wants them since it makes sense for them to be displayed here...
Last edited by Pablo on Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

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Pablo
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Location: Arizona

Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:44 pm

5jeepsaz wrote:
Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:03 pm
I'm in phoenix. How buried is it? I would take all those lights if reasonable ... been looking for a couple years is why I would ask. Even bought a set of ones from back east but when they got here they were plastic! Lol. Let me know if you get around to it? I have determined that marchal lights are closest to oem but they cost a ton and are hard to find. The KC ones I will find this winter at a show or yard sale if lucky, so that is current plan. Yours are perfect since somebody cut them all in. Thanks, Paul
Then I will hold them for you, say $75 for all three? I make no promises as to when I will get them off but.... they ain't going anywhere. I should be headed down to the valley early December. I will take a look at getting them off and see how hard it is going to be plug up any holes. I will also take some close up pictures of them and make sure they are all still there and give you a better idea of the condition.
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)


5jeepsaz
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Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:07 am

Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by 5jeepsaz » Fri Nov 19, 2021 1:16 pm

Heck yes! Thank you. I'll go $125 if you can pull the switches or whatever lights them up. Let me know when and i will pm you my contact.

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jaber
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by jaber » Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:02 am

I have an Android touch screen and VA in mine, will be watching this closely.
Jeff

'46 cj3a
'51 Willys p/u
'51 Willys Parkway Conversion
'74 CJ5
'75 J-20 Wrecker
'75 J-20 Cummins service truck
'77 J-10 p/u
'79 Cherokee
'88 Grand Wagoneer
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/jeffaber/

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Pablo
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Sat Nov 20, 2021 5:56 pm

jaber wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 7:02 am
I have an Android touch screen and VA in mine, will be watching this closely.
The VA unit isn't here yet to fool with, but I am eagerly awaiting its arrival... hopefully I can bench test it without having to hook up AC lines and a heater core. We will see.

The plan is to have it all open source with a complete guide in the README and maybe some videos. I will offer a turn key package for those who don't want to piece a science project together. It is a high priority for me to get it done, but Android development has changed much since my last hurrah in it. I am having lots of fun fighting with libraries, permissions and just throwing poo at the wall with the device I have.

But since you are interested, if you don't mind:

- What type of Android head unit do you currently have?

- Would you want something that is wireless (Bluetooth) or would you prefer a wired solution? I would like to go Bluetooth, but it can be flakey. Lots of headunits have their bluetooth stack locked up tight and will not pair with just any non-phone blue-tooth device.

- Out of all the wired solutions, I am looking at either using a USB cable and/or making my own CAN bus network. I would put a CANBUS adapter (shield) on the Arduino HVAC controller and make it talk to the Android unit via its own CAN Bus receiver. I think the USB is simpler and probably cheaper to make, but the CANbus has more promise and lots of integration targets as CAN vehicles get older. Some of these machines are so locked down it may be the only way to reliably communicate with them.
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

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Pablo
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Location: Arizona

Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:33 pm

So in addition to HVAC integration, I am going to use the Android headunit to display vehicle information center stuff that is displayed on newer vehicles. If it all goes well, I will make this into a theme-able widget for Android that people can use:

This is the basic center with no data to display:

Image

The vehicle is displayed from the top and from the side profile. To the right side, there are a series of buttons. In this storyboard and the previous-- I am using the teal color to indicate that this is something a user can interact with. Most stuff will not be interactive-- since I prefer switches and relays to computerized stuff (since that is my day job I know it is not always reliable). The computer stuff mainly just monitors stuff and if it goes boobs up then I am not really out anything since it was just the radio anyway...

The few exceptions to the above are the following things controlled by teal buttons:
  • The HVAC controller application (For which, I have a complete physical control panel to use as a backup).
  • The 4 wheel drive status application which is just another application that displays status of 4-wheel specific things.
  • A launcher to take you to a home screen with AV widgets (volume, radio, music mp3 player, bluetooth music link, etc)
  • Parts & Service. Probably takes you to a launcher group with car specific stuff. Ideally a series of apps to hold data. I will probably need a spreadsheet or database just to store the parts numbers of random parts I have used in the Franken-Wagoneer so that I can look up parts when needed. Probably an electronic service log application and factory and aftermarket owners and service manuals.
  • Apollo/Dog mode. Set's up certain things in the Jeep to keep the doggo's happy, stop them from barking.
  • TPMS data display toggles showing the TPMS info.
  • A button to override the Radiator fan by opening a normally closed switch. Possibly used for water crossings (if that ever happens). I feel ok about this feature being controlled by the head unit... I think. I suppose if the waters gets up to the head unit I will have a change of heart though.
Last edited by Pablo on Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

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Pablo
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Location: Arizona

Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Sat Nov 20, 2021 6:46 pm

When the unit is all lit up like a full-on Christmas tree it looks something like this:

Image

That is very busy, but do keep in mind that all of that is not likely to be displayed at the same time. In some places, I have only shown one thing out of a group that would have been displayed in the same place. For example, the headlights can be low beam, high beam, or parking light. I have only shown parking light. Same with the window wipers.

I know the doors look like a hot mess, but I am still working on them. I am not much of an artist, so that was the best I could do on the 1st take.

You can see the use of orange and red to indicate something that might be amiss:
  • Radiator fan is shut off
  • Door is "a jar"
  • Parking Brake is on
  • Swaybars are disconnected
I have a full set of gauges in the stock dash location for temperatures and pressures and EGT and turbo and what not. So I don't have any plans to display those items here...

I have displayed things that are in a known good state in green in this theme:
  • Auxillary Isolated Battery is in standby mode.
Turn signals have two indicators: the green arrows and the physical orange lights on the side of the vehicle that is turning. Brakes are shown with the red light to the rear.

I am working on a 4-wheel drive status screen, but it is a hot mess still... will share more later.
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

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jaber
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by jaber » Sat Nov 20, 2021 8:39 pm

Mine is a generic ebay special that came with Android "go". Os from China. I don't know squat about programming this and wish I could find someone who could either reprogram it with "oreo", or at least figure out why it won't do anything other then radio and backup cam. It does have 2 USB receptacle cables that I have stuck out under the dash. I don't use them, so wired would probably be best for me.
Jeff

'46 cj3a
'51 Willys p/u
'51 Willys Parkway Conversion
'74 CJ5
'75 J-20 Wrecker
'75 J-20 Cummins service truck
'77 J-10 p/u
'79 Cherokee
'88 Grand Wagoneer
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/jeffaber/


5jeepsaz
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by 5jeepsaz » Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:53 am

Do you have a choke, temp gauge, rpms, gear, Ebrake, drive park, enginen on off, remote start stop, tow haul, or 4wd indicator to consider? Just throwing it out there. The things I've thought of adding are overdrive (could have an indicator), and a tiltometer

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Pablo
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Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Tue Nov 23, 2021 5:00 pm

5jeepsaz wrote:
Mon Nov 22, 2021 9:53 am
Do you have a choke, temp gauge, rpms, gear, Ebrake, drive park, enginen on off, remote start stop, tow haul, or 4wd indicator to consider? Just throwing it out there. The things I've thought of adding are overdrive (could have an indicator), and a tiltometer
Well, there is my Wagoneer's initial project and then there is what I will support in the software by the time I release and document the code. For my application:
  • drive/park & remote start stop & tow haul: Not applicable to my application, which has a manual 5-speed transmission.
  • choke: not applicable in my diesel application.
  • temp: I am going with a manual gauge in the instrument cluster only.
  • rpms: Another manual gauge in the instrument cluster.
  • gear indicator: That will be on the 4-wheel drive VIC screen that I have not finished a mock-up of yet.
  • e-brake: There is a parking brake indicator in the pic, I guess that is old school for e-brake and I like the name better as it is more accurate to me. I don't think anyone in their right mind really expects an "emergency" brake to do much of anything if your main brakes go out.
  • 4wd: The twin stick and the doubler will both be on the 4-wheel drive VIC screen.
So there is what I will have supported for my personal vehicle indicator screens, and there is what I hope to have the software support when released publicly. Eventually, any CANBus message that is useful and readable by existing Android applications would have a hook to support it, including all the suggestions you just made. The Android Automotive HAL is a good example of what the hooks could look like. After the hook's are adopted, then themes can be made for individual vehicle screens that indicate what hooks the specific screen uses and how it uses them. For our older vehicles that don't have a native CAN, separate devices would be made/bought that plug into the main head unit to send it CANBus messages for each system that the vehicle owner wishes to monitor.

All this is way down the road... I will get it working on my Wag first. The first implementation is basically a proof-of-concept and then comes getting it ready for others for public use.
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

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Pablo
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:58 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Wed Nov 24, 2021 2:17 pm

I have made a new revision of the main VIC:
  • The Radiator Override switch is moved to the 4 wheel drive status screen
  • The axle locked messages are moved to the 4 wheel drive status screen as well.
  • The screen is a tiny bit less busy as a result.
  • Swaybar disconnects are still displayed in red/orange on this screen since having a bar disconnected is a safety concern on the pavement.
Image

Which brings us to the storyboard for the 4-wheel drive status screen:
  • The top left is a series of status indicators similar to what is provided on the main VIC screen.
  • The right side in gray consists of drive-line specific information and status displays (transfer case, doubler, transmission). These indicate shift patterns as well as what the current shift selection is.
  • The far lower right includes on board air status.
  • The far lower left includes a custom inclinometer.
  • Buttons to over-ride the radiator fan & to control tpms color settings are in in the lower middle right, in teal.
Image
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

User avatar

Topic author
Pablo
Posts: 135
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:58 pm
Location: Arizona

Re: 65 Waggy 4bt swap

Post by Pablo » Thu Dec 02, 2021 8:57 pm

Still waiting on the HVAC unit...

Have a pic of some swag...

Image

Some of that is for the 67 and some for the 65.

Now for some vintage Stewart Warner...

The mechanical speedo I will probably use:

Image

The sweet Detroit Diesel reverse sweep mechanical tach and hour meter:

Image

I want to use that tach, but it is going to be a bear to get it working right.

The planned pyro is a bit on the huge side:

Image

The above gauges are all 3ish inches across.

These candidate mechanical gauges are all 1.25 across:

Image

I probably won't use the amps as it is not really needed. I will isolate the mechanical oil pressure gauge outside the cab. The air pressure is cool and I will use it for the OBA, not sure where it will live though.

Image

Maybe I will use this for the lift pump?

Image

Image
  • 65 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

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