1986 Grand Wagoneer Cummins R2.8 Swap

[BaldBeardedBastard]

As I am getting into to this project planning decently, I figured it was timely to start a build thread before i forget things

I originally bought this Grand Wagoneer 2.5 years ago after looking for a while for a clean running driver for longer than I care to admit. I have put about 12,000 miles on it being a part-time daily driver(that even seems like a contradiction to me after i type it) on it and have gone through the standard tired and hacked issues that most do when sorting out a vehicle;

-New tires to replace the 12 yo ones with flat spots
-Replaced bent tie rods
-Replaced wag sag springs with a BDS 4"
-Howell TBI
- TFI Upgrade
-Got the AC recharged. There is no cold like 1980's AC cold.
-Rebuilt the rear dana 44 to appease the angry bearing gods
-LEDs all the way around so I can see/be seen
-Other misc that I am forgetting.

However, I have always schemed for a 4BT or a VW ALH 1.9 TDI as a powerplant- just like the simplicity and the idea of new technology reviving old vehicles that have already amortized their cost/energy of manufacturing. When I was younger I tried and failed a few times with previous Wagoneers I owned to make this a reality.

Concurrently, I am running between the Bay Area and Sacramento area 1-2 a week, providing me with plenty of federal highway miles to cover. Even with the TBI, I was at best getting 13 mpg.

So a perfect storm brewed along with a healthy bit of rationalizing/lying to myself on the economics, which led me to buy one of the new-ish Cummins Repower 2.8 diesels when I was at SEMA this year. Since then I have been accruing parts to make the automotive tetris a reality.

Here is where I am at so far-

Main Components
-Cummins R2.8 https://www.cummins.com/engines/repower
-Gearstar 4l65e https://gearstar.com/transmissions/gm/l ... sions/c14/
-Axis Industries Adapters & Mounts http://www.axisindustriesusa.com/cummins-r2-8/
-Compushift Sport Transmission Controller https://www.hgmelectronics.com/compushi ... t-and-pro/
-Novak 4l65e to NP228/229 adapter https://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/ada ... /kit-4l63/

Support Components
-BJs crossflow radiator & electric fan
-3.73 gears along with some e-lockers
-Stack gauges
-Hydroboost- the R2.8 comes with a belt driven vac pump to support swaps into factory gas vehicles, but I want to take this opportunity to make the braking measured and predictable instead of bad and exciting.

Stuff I still need to figure out
- Intercooler- Still working on this- looking at some of CX Racing universals, but open to suggestions
-Looking at the VHX gauge cluster from Dakota Digital to make the main instrumentation a 2-wire experience with J1939 CAN- here is a great thread about a forum member working with Dakota to customize the gauge design that is awesome! I am trying to steal outright and asked them if they can incorporate warning indicators lights referencing the J1939 signal from the ECM. http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... 11&t=12920
-the unknown unknowns

Parts are showing up in surges. I am presently scouring the documentation/instructions/FSMs to make sure that which needs power/vac/etc has it. That way once this kicks off properly there are only 2-3 near catastrophes instead of the standard 7.

I will post pics once I figure out where to host/give up and upload from my phone.

Thanks.

Ryan

[BaldBeardedBastard]

Motor crate and a shot of the Woody before it got taller.

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[Stuka]

I believe you may end up with the first R2.8 FSJ. There may be some that have not been posted online I suppose.

Almost comical that such a small engine will have more HP and torque than the factory 5.9L V8

Only aadvise I can think of is make sure that electric fan actually puts out the CFM that is needed. Many are way under rated, which is why a lot of people use OEM fans instead.

[SJTD]

I wish that motor was available when I started my project.

Might make a good swap if I ever get mine on the road. I'd be looking for a six speed manual.

[bigun]

It's already able to hang upside down!

[BaldBeardedBastard]

I had to special order that feature!


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[BaldBeardedBastard]

I believe you may end up with the first R2.8 FSJ. There may be some that have not been posted online I suppose.

Almost comical that such a small engine will have more HP and torque than the factory 5.9L V8

Only aadvise I can think of is make sure that electric fan actually puts out the CFM that is needed. Many are way under rated, which is why a lot of people use OEM fans instead.

It is a bit laughable that my approach to performance gains is to cut the motor in half!

Good call on the CFM rating- I completely forget to check that. Cummins has a requirement somewhere in their literature...

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[tedlovesjeeps71]

I know there are lots of folks drooling over the idea of this (or the 3.0 Banks) diesel swap. I’m definitely following the thread and hope it proves to be all it can be.
Would you mind listing the general prices you ended up with for motor etc? Be very helpful to those of us dreaming but pinching pennies.

[1977ChiefLS3]

Love the color. There were a lot of whites and dark blue GWs where I grew up, but only one with the light blue metallic and it was always a favorite.

What OEM vehicles does / did the R2.8 Cummins come in?

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Love the color. There were a lot of whites and dark blue GWs where I grew up, but only one with the light blue metallic and it was always a favorite.

What OEM vehicles does / did the R2.8 Cummins come in?

I may be mistaken but I believe hopefully is isn't the same 2.8 that jeep offered in the liberty. It had not a few issues so was dropped in the US. IIRC, VM (who made the motor) did a major retooling. That may be a completely different 2.8 than Cummins motor... Anyone able to set me straight?

[BaldBeardedBastard]

Would you mind listing the general prices you ended up with for motor etc? Be very helpful to those of us dreaming but pinching pennies.

Not at all. The price is up on Cummins Repower website- you buy it directly from them. They go for $8.9k. I got a little better price with the SEMA show discount.


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[BaldBeardedBastard]

Love the color. There were a lot of whites and dark blue GWs where I grew up, but only one with the light blue metallic and it was always a favorite.

What OEM vehicles does / did the R2.8 Cummins come in?

I may be mistaken but I believe hopefully is isn't the same 2.8 that jeep offered in the liberty. It had not a few issues so was dropped in the US. IIRC, VM (who made the motor) did a major retooling. That may be a completely different 2.8 than Cummins motor... Anyone able to set me straight?

Nope not out of a Liberty. This is a different animal. It's never actually come OEM in anything as far as I can tell. I think it was developed by Cummins with Dept. Of Energy funding under the ATLAS program. It's their first crate engine through their Repower department.

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[BaldBeardedBastard]

Love the color. There were a lot of whites and dark blue GWs where I grew up, but only one with the light blue metallic and it was always a favorite.

I completely agree. The artic blue/medium blue is a bit of a rare bird. The clear coat is shot on it, but I heard the patina thing is in these days. At least that's my story until I can get it repainted.

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[derf]

Love the color. There were a lot of whites and dark blue GWs where I grew up, but only one with the light blue metallic and it was always a favorite.

What OEM vehicles does / did the R2.8 Cummins come in?

I may be mistaken but I believe hopefully is isn't the same 2.8 that jeep offered in the liberty. It had not a few issues so was dropped in the US. IIRC, VM (who made the motor) did a major retooling. That may be a completely different 2.8 than Cummins motor... Anyone able to set me straight?

The R2.8 is based on the Cummins ISF series engines. https://www.cummins.com/sites/default/files/4971326.pdf It's used outside the US quite extensively but the R2.8 is the first version of this engine family to be sold in the US for installation in on-the-road vehicles. They've integrated all of the necessary emissions stuff onto the engine so all you have to do is bolt up a tail pipe. It's emissions legal for 1999 and older (i.e. OBD I) vehicles as it passes all of the emissions requirements.

They've updated the engine already to go from 267 ft-lbs to 310. It's a viable replacement for any small block V8.

Two wild guesses here:

1. I know that the wiring harness comes with something resembling an OBD II connector so I suspect they're working on making a version that you can install in vehicles newer than 1999.

2. Based on the research I've done I have to wonder seriously if they're working on the R3.8 since it's based on the same engine family. If they sold a 3.8 liter engine with 400-450 ft-lbs you could start to look at putting this engine in a heavier truck.

I've been looking at putting one of these R2.8 engines in my truck. And I'm patiently saving up my money so I can get started once I'm in a place where I can do the work. And while a 2.8 would be cool in Truck Norris, a 3.8 would be even better. So if they come out with the R3.8 I will certainly look into it.

As far as the Liberty 2.8, that is an entirely different engine. It was made by VM Motori in Italy. Jeep dropped it because of the new emissions laws that went into effect. They weren't selling enough to justify doing the work to make it meet the new standards. From what I understand, the work was later done and it's been updated in many ways to became the 2.8 Duramax that you can get in the Chevy Colorado. But I don't know what all was done.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Thanks for setting me straight guys. I wasn't sure and had that tingling that it wasn't the same. Good to know.
And I knew Derf would pop in eventually. Come-on man... Do a sister build!

[derf]

Thanks for setting me straight guys. I wasn't sure and had that tingling that it wasn't the same. Good to know.
And I knew Derf would pop in eventually. Come-on man... Do a sister build!

Buy me the engine and figure out where I can do the swap and I'll get started.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Thanks for setting me straight guys. I wasn't sure and had that tingling that it wasn't the same. Good to know.
And I knew Derf would pop in eventually. Come-on man... Do a sister build!

Buy me the engine and figure out where I can do the swap and I'll get started.

Lol! Your on your own on the purchase. But if we can get out of this apartment and I can get my shop, you're more than welcome to a bay.

[BaldBeardedBastard]

Thanks for setting me straight guys. I wasn't sure and had that tingling that it wasn't the same. Good to know.
And I knew Derf would pop in eventually. Come-on man... Do a sister build!

Buy me the engine and figure out where I can do the swap and I'll get started.

Hit the nail on the head why this has taken me years to get going. Hopefully this thread saves you a few headaches at my expense

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[derf]

Thanks for setting me straight guys. I wasn't sure and had that tingling that it wasn't the same. Good to know.
And I knew Derf would pop in eventually. Come-on man... Do a sister build!

Buy me the engine and figure out where I can do the swap and I'll get started.

Hit the nail on the head why this has taken me years to get going. Hopefully this thread saves you a few headaches at my expense

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I'm definitely going to follow your progress. Take lots of pictures.

I can tell you that the Novak adapter for the t-case works great. I have that for the 700R4 swap in my truck. Best bet for the rear trans mount is to move the stock crossmember to the back set of holes in the frame. That gets the crossmember right about where it needs to be for the longer 700R4/4L60 without a ton of complicated fabrication. I bolted the 700R4 to the AMC engine in the stock location and had almost no fabrication work to get the rear trans mount to bolt right into place with the foot on the Novak adapter. Of course, the shifter linkage for the flag shifter and driveshafts will have to be modified but that's easy work. You'll also want a longer speedometer cable but you can get one new from places like Rock Auto. Just get one that fits an early 80's Cherokee with the 258 since that engine pushed the trans to the back mount. Or, if you're going 100% digital, a sending unit for a standard NP transfer case will bolt in and you just run the wires where they need to go.

I've been working with a buddy who's doing a 6BT swap in his M715 and we've been bouncing ideas for the intercooler off each other. There's no simple solution. If you want to route an air-to-air cooler in front of the radiator, you're cutting significant holes in the sheet metal behind the grill. There's room behind the razor grill to fit one of the wider and shorter intercoolers (with some cutting) in front of the AC condenser with room below for a wide and short aux trans cooler. I don't know about some of the other grills as they are spaced away from the front sheet metal differently. I was looking at something like this one: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-260002/overview/ It should tuck up high behind the razor grill, right under the top plate. You'd have to cut holes on either side of the rhino opening for the elbows and then figure out how to duct the air from there.

One idea that my buddy and I have been mulling over is using an air-to-water cooler. I've found a pretty significant aftermarket fluid cooler that fits perfectly in the opening on the front sheet metal and is about as big as you can fit there. I want to say it was this one: https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-g4969/overview/ It takes a 3/8" line. You could easily mount it there and run the lines to a heat exchanger somewhere on the driver side behind the coolant overflow bottle. Of course, you'd need a pump to go with it but with the Cummins engine, you should have plenty of room for everything. That would get you some intercooling without having to cut up your front sheet metal.

[Cheapthrills]

Wow she's purdy... so that's what mine used to look like

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