89 grand wagoneer LS swap

[bobcratchet555]

hey all,

this is my first jeep, but not my first LS swap. I am very comfortable with LS swaps and LS engines in general, but i dont know anything about jeeps. However my wife had been asking for one for a few years, and once i started researching I decided that, of course, it HAD to be a grand wagoneer

anyway this one came up for sale and it ran, drove, and had "decent" interior and fewer "inspection ports" in the body than many of the other examples i had looked at, so it came home with me:



it stops, steers, goes, and overall appears to have been maintained for awhile until it sat. the gauge cluster shows 490k. i am not sure if that is real.

thankfully, the engine slung so much oil around that the whole front end is pretty well preserved





of course my goal is to do this swap with as little budget as possible, so i started by ripping her guts out and selling the 360 and 727:



i used the money from selling the 360 to buy a 2000 tahoe that had been wrecked:





and that's about where she sits now. The general plan for the swap is

-use the engine, transmission, wiring harness, and fuse panel from the donor tahoe
-sell as much of the tahoe as i can to fund the swap
-use an NP243 transfer case (the tahoe came with an NP246 which is believe is full time 4wd, and in any case it has the "4 auto" function which requires abs and a lot of other things i wont be swapping to the jeep)
-use the accessory drive from the donor tahoe. power steering pump will bolt right up to the jeep power steering, and the rest of it works
-inline walboro 255 fuel pump (UNLESS the gas tank from the tahoe fits the jeep, in which case i'll just transfer the entire fuel system. i suspect that it's too wide, but have not confirmed yet)
-use as much of the tahoe exhaust as fits
-have not yet decided on a radiator. i am trying to find a factory radiator from some application that had electric fans, that is reasonably similar in size, but haven't yet. Closest thing i found was a chrysler town and country from around 2008, but that rad is a little smaller than i was hoping. when it comes down to it, i might just buy a brand new jeep rad that fits this thing, and adapt an e fan shroud to it at some point
-climate control will come later however i need to get the windows working (first step in any grand wagoneer project, it seems)

i havent yet bought the motor mounts, but i was looking at flyin' iron, and novak. does anyone have a preference between those two? personally i like the flyin' iron fab design better, but would certainly be open to feedback from others. i will probably just fab some bracketry to adapt the 4l60e to the stock grand wagoneer crossmember.

[bobcratchet555]

went and snagged an NP243 and control module this morning. This will allow me to use an electronic/push button transfer case, but not have full time 4wd or have to deal with all the abs speed sensors that would prohibit the use of the np246.



question - the NP243 has a 32 spline rear output shaft. The NP229 also has a 32 spline rear output (to the best of my knowledge). For some reason, the yoke from the NP229 does not fit on the NP243. It will engage the very tip of the splines, but will not go any further. What gives?

[dodgerammit]

First off, Hello and welcome to the asylum!

Fellow LS swapper here. Like you, am comfortable with them (owned a 4th gen TransAm WS6 for 14 years), so it was a no brainer when the time came.

I'll make a few suggestions here:

-inline walboro 255 fuel pump (UNLESS the gas tank from the tahoe fits the jeep, in which case i'll just transfer the entire fuel system. i suspect that it's too wide, but have not confirmed yet)

The factory Jeep tank will disappoint you due to no internal baffles. I did the 2 door S-10 Blazer tank from 97. It is like it is made to fit. Then use the 96 4 door Blazer sending unit and pump. It'll work with the 86-91 Jeep gauge There is a guy on the FB group that makes fuel fill hoses to adapt to the tank from the Jeep fill port.

IMO, it is money WELL spent.

-use as much of the tahoe exhaust as fits

Keep the Jeep stuff from the catalytic area-back. The issue is going to be using the Tahoe stuff. The way the down pipes angle, they're gonna need to most likely be modified. You'll have to fab up a Y-Pipe. It's gonna be tight above that front driveshaft. Nothing out there has been discovered to just "fit".

i might just buy a brand new jeep rad that fits this thing, and adapt an e fan shroud to it at some point

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

In fact, I have a summit dual fan setup that perfectly fit the factory radiator for the Jeep (and the steam port adapter for the upper radiator hose) if you're interested. BJ's copper radiator too that has been cleaned and had the top tank rebrazed within the last year. It needs the bracket on one side resoldered to it. Lemme know if you're interested. I'll make you a deal to get it out of my way and under the hood for someone who can use it.

-climate control will come later however i need to get the windows working (first step in any grand wagoneer project, it seems)

Youtube. Search for a channel called 'comfort in discomfort'

i havent yet bought the motor mounts, but i was looking at flyin' iron, and novak. does anyone have a preference between those two? personally i like the flyin' iron fab design better, but would certainly be open to feedback from others. i will probably just fab some bracketry to adapt the 4l60e to the stock grand wagoneer crossmember.

Flyin' iron all the way!

[dodgerammit]

went and snagged an NP243 and control module this morning. This will allow me to use an electronic/push button transfer case, but not have full time 4wd or have to deal with all the abs speed sensors that would prohibit the use of the np246.



question - the NP243 has a 32 spline rear output shaft. The NP229 also has a 32 spline rear output (to the best of my knowledge). For some reason, the yoke from the NP229 does not fit on the NP243. It will engage the very tip of the splines, but will not go any further. What gives?

That 243 looks to be a slip yoke style. The 229 is a fixed yoke, so definitely won't work even if they could mate together.

If you're not lifting the jeep over 4" or wheeling it much, the slip will be fine. I vote calling up Tom Woods once everything is installed and you can measure the length you need for driveshafts.

Or, if the case from the Tahoe is the same output, you could use a local driveline shop to adapt the case side of the Tahoe's rear driveshaft to the pinion side of the Jeep shaft (provided the diameters work).

[Yeller]

Flying iron mounts for sure. The Novak ones work but just are a kinda sorta thing that leaves a lot to be desired.

Welcome aboard

[bobcratchet555]

First off, Hello and welcome to the asylum!

Fellow LS swapper here. Like you, am comfortable with them (owned a 4th gen TransAm WS6 for 14 years), so it was a no brainer when the time came.

I'll make a few suggestions here:

-inline walboro 255 fuel pump (UNLESS the gas tank from the tahoe fits the jeep, in which case i'll just transfer the entire fuel system. i suspect that it's too wide, but have not confirmed yet)

The factory Jeep tank will disappoint you due to no internal baffles. I did the 2 door S-10 Blazer tank from 97. It is like it is made to fit. Then use the 96 4 door Blazer sending unit and pump. It'll work with the 86-91 Jeep gauge There is a guy on the FB group that makes fuel fill hoses to adapt to the tank from the Jeep fill port.

IMO, it is money WELL spent.

-use as much of the tahoe exhaust as fits

Keep the Jeep stuff from the catalytic area-back. The issue is going to be using the Tahoe stuff. The way the down pipes angle, they're gonna need to most likely be modified. You'll have to fab up a Y-Pipe. It's gonna be tight above that front driveshaft. Nothing out there has been discovered to just "fit".

i might just buy a brand new jeep rad that fits this thing, and adapt an e fan shroud to it at some point

Winner winner, chicken dinner.

In fact, I have a summit dual fan setup that perfectly fit the factory radiator for the Jeep (and the steam port adapter for the upper radiator hose) if you're interested. BJ's copper radiator too that has been cleaned and had the top tank rebrazed within the last year. It needs the bracket on one side resoldered to it. Lemme know if you're interested. I'll make you a deal to get it out of my way and under the hood for someone who can use it.

-climate control will come later however i need to get the windows working (first step in any grand wagoneer project, it seems)

Youtube. Search for a channel called 'comfort in discomfort'

i havent yet bought the motor mounts, but i was looking at flyin' iron, and novak. does anyone have a preference between those two? personally i like the flyin' iron fab design better, but would certainly be open to feedback from others. i will probably just fab some bracketry to adapt the 4l60e to the stock grand wagoneer crossmember.

Flyin' iron all the way!

wow, thank you kindly for the detailed feedback. this is really helpful.

as for the gas tank - is the s10 tank the one that goes into the spare tire area? i believe i have heard of this before. initially i wanted to avoid that, largely because this waggy will spend most of its time on the road, and a spare tire is not a terrible thing to have but, if the waggy tank ends up being unworkable, it sounds like this would be a much better option. i also plan to measure the tahoe's gas tank, although i'm about 75% sure its gonna be too wide to fit where the jeep one goes.

we'll see how the exhaust goes, i'm at least going to try and make the truck manifolds work. i also have a set of block huggers hanging around that will probably work as well, they're just a little bit more annoying because they don't dump at a place or angle that makes it easy to fab everything behind them.

i'm still tosses up about the radiator at the moment, i know the jeep stuff will fit but its really expensive! My other LS swap (at the moment, haha) is a 1998 volvo v90 station wagon, and the radiator from it is both cheaper, and larger, and it very nearly fits in the jeep!! i am going to continue researching options regarding this, but if the hood closes with the v90 radiator, that might go in the jeep for keeps.

Flying iron al the way, sounds good, i'll go get me a set! Hoping to get the engine out of the tahoe this upcoming weekend, so i'll need a place to put it, haha

[bobcratchet555]

went and snagged an NP243 and control module this morning. This will allow me to use an electronic/push button transfer case, but not have full time 4wd or have to deal with all the abs speed sensors that would prohibit the use of the np246.



question - the NP243 has a 32 spline rear output shaft. The NP229 also has a 32 spline rear output (to the best of my knowledge). For some reason, the yoke from the NP229 does not fit on the NP243. It will engage the very tip of the splines, but will not go any further. What gives?

That 243 looks to be a slip yoke style. The 229 is a fixed yoke, so definitely won't work even if they could mate together.

If you're not lifting the jeep over 4" or wheeling it much, the slip will be fine. I vote calling up Tom Woods once everything is installed and you can measure the length you need for driveshafts.

Or, if the case from the Tahoe is the same output, you could use a local driveline shop to adapt the case side of the Tahoe's rear driveshaft to the pinion side of the Jeep shaft (provided the diameters work).

once again, appreciate the feedback. my initial thought was to do a "hack n tap" mod on the NP243, and keep the slip in the drive shaft as it was set up from stock. So i figured that if the yoke from the NP229 fit, maybe that was a good start. But then i realized, it wouldn't work properly anyways because it needs to bottom out so that it can't move forward or backwards once its bolted to the transfer case.

the tahoe yoke may be a good option, i havent pulled the driveshaft from it yet but that is a really good idea.

i also dont yet know how the driveshaft length and angles will work out, i will say that the NP229 is about 18.25" from front of case, to output seal. The NP243 is about 19.5" including the full length of the output shaft as it currently sits. Shortening the driveshaft 1.25" wouldn't make the angles too bad, but, i am positive that the 4l60e is also longer than the 727. I dont know how much yet.

lots to figure out still, once again i really appreciate the feedback. I am still baking my noodle a little bit on why a 32 spline yoke wont mate to a 32 spline shaft

[bobcratchet555]

Flying iron mounts for sure. The Novak ones work but just are a kinda sorta thing that leaves a lot to be desired.

Welcome aboard

thanks. much appreciated!!

[dodgerammit]

as for the gas tank - is the s10 tank the one that goes into the spare tire area? i believe i have heard of this before. initially i wanted to avoid that, largely because this waggy will spend most of its time on the road, and a spare tire is not a terrible thing to have but, if the waggy tank ends up being unworkable, it sounds like this would be a much better option. i also plan to measure the tahoe's gas tank, although i'm about 75% sure its gonna be too wide to fit where the jeep one goes.

Correct. My thoughts on the spare is this. Tire will go flat at worst possible time (rain or snow), then I'll get even more wet/angry about having to pull tire from under Jeep. I got lucky and snagged one of rstep's last interior mounts (mounts spare similar to the way the ZJ Grand Cherokees mounted). I can easily swap out a tire if needed now (and I have already had to). If you're decent at welding, it wouldn't be hard to create something similar. I'm pretty sure you could find a spare tire circle with the correct lug pattern online and fab up the rest.

we'll see how the exhaust goes, i'm at least going to try and make the truck manifolds work. i also have a set of block huggers hanging around that will probably work as well, they're just a little bit more annoying because they don't dump at a place or angle that makes it easy to fab everything behind them.

I used the truck manifolds. They fit fine. The issue is the down pipe (O2 section) that attaches. You'll have to get creative on the driver's side to make it work. Not super hard, but will involve some custom bending. It is completely due to the driveshaft being right there.

i'm still tosses up about the radiator at the moment, i know the jeep stuff will fit but its really expensive! My other LS swap (at the moment, haha) is a 1998 volvo v90 station wagon, and the radiator from it is both cheaper, and larger, and it very nearly fits in the jeep!! i am going to continue researching options regarding this, but if the hood closes with the v90 radiator, that might go in the jeep for keeps.

If it's going to be a challenge, just let me know if you want my original setup. Bolts in, worked with the LS just fine, and I'll let it go stoopid cheap. I now have an aluminum crossflow.

You can check my thread starting on page 5 and see the original radiator setup. You'll also later see where it got damaged on a trip, repaired at a shop, and cleaned up.

[Yeller]

Trail blazer exhaust manifolds fit most everything well. Just have to cut the ears off the bell housing, some have them some don’t. It’s what I have used on all of my personal swaps.

[bobcratchet555]

as for the gas tank - is the s10 tank the one that goes into the spare tire area? i believe i have heard of this before. initially i wanted to avoid that, largely because this waggy will spend most of its time on the road, and a spare tire is not a terrible thing to have but, if the waggy tank ends up being unworkable, it sounds like this would be a much better option. i also plan to measure the tahoe's gas tank, although i'm about 75% sure its gonna be too wide to fit where the jeep one goes.

Correct. My thoughts on the spare is this. Tire will go flat at worst possible time (rain or snow), then I'll get even more wet/angry about having to pull tire from under Jeep. I got lucky and snagged one of rstep's last interior mounts (mounts spare similar to the way the ZJ Grand Cherokees mounted). I can easily swap out a tire if needed now (and I have already had to). If you're decent at welding, it wouldn't be hard to create something similar. I'm pretty sure you could find a spare tire circle with the correct lug pattern online and fab up the rest.

we'll see how the exhaust goes, i'm at least going to try and make the truck manifolds work. i also have a set of block huggers hanging around that will probably work as well, they're just a little bit more annoying because they don't dump at a place or angle that makes it easy to fab everything behind them.

I used the truck manifolds. They fit fine. The issue is the down pipe (O2 section) that attaches. You'll have to get creative on the driver's side to make it work. Not super hard, but will involve some custom bending. It is completely due to the driveshaft being right there.

i'm still tosses up about the radiator at the moment, i know the jeep stuff will fit but its really expensive! My other LS swap (at the moment, haha) is a 1998 volvo v90 station wagon, and the radiator from it is both cheaper, and larger, and it very nearly fits in the jeep!! i am going to continue researching options regarding this, but if the hood closes with the v90 radiator, that might go in the jeep for keeps.

If it's going to be a challenge, just let me know if you want my original setup. Bolts in, worked with the LS just fine, and I'll let it go stoopid cheap. I now have an aluminum crossflow.

You can check my thread starting on page 5 and see the original radiator setup. You'll also later see where it got damaged on a trip, repaired at a shop, and cleaned up.

hmm, seems like i need to sit down and read thru your thread should be fun!!

[TurboJ4000]

You can get an NP 241 Dodge tail housing which will allow you to have a cable drive for your speedo. Those tail housings may actually fit on an NP243. The only issue with this is that the LS PCM needs to have a transmission output speed to shift properly. So if you do the cable drive to have your original speedo, you'll need to add the output speed sensor in the transmission. The 4L80 this is pretty easy although its all the way in the back of the transmission. The 4L60 I imagine is the same.

You can use a passthrough signal converter to get that output speed signal but that takes a bit of converting the signal in the PCM as well.

[Yeller]

4l60 needs a t-case adapter with a speed sensor or an OEM t-case with the proper sensor and wiring to tell the computer when it shifts to low range. Same for a 4x4 4l80e, a 2wd 4l80e has the speed sensor in the back of the transmission a 4x4 model does not.

[Thomas792]

Watching with great interest.

[bobcratchet555]

i do not plan on driving the mechanical speedo, i have something more interesting in mind, but have not worked out the details yet so I will keep it in my head for now

[bobcratchet555]

went from this:



to this:



and then this:



this was more "interesting" than i thought. i feel like the engine and transmission goes in and out of the volvo much easier, than it did this tahoe. But, i also tried to keep the powertrain as together as possible, and preserve little things that would make the swap easier (the fuel lines and transmission cooler lines primarily). The starter and trans cooler lines kept getting hung up on the passenger side motor mount. i ended up having to not just un bolt the motor mounts, but remove the cradles that attach to the fame as well. In addition, i was unable to get the front driveshaft out until i removed the powertrain and soaked the yoke in penetrating oil. So that made it more fun as well.

After this, i removed the NP246. There was about 1/2 cup of something? ATF? gear oil? i think it was atf - in between the trans and transfer case. i know the ATF from this unit was squeaky clean but maybe there is a slow leak on the output shaft of the trans. idk, thats a little frustrating tho.

No pics, but i did go ahead and bolt the NP243 up. Of some note - the NP243 came of a '96 silverado with a 4l60e - the adapter that goes between the transmission and transfer case, was about 1/4" longer on the '96 unit, than the 2000 tahoe. I re-used the adapter from the 2000 tahoe and everything bolted up nicely. i suspect it would've bolt up nicely with the adapter from the '96 unit as well, except there would be .25" less spline engagement between the trans output shaft and transfer case input.

i am hoping that by preserving the fuel lines and transmission cooler lines, i will be able to re-use them and make things easier. we will see!!

[Yeller]

Looking good. There is no seal in the back of the transmission. The tcase provides that seal so it is normal to have some oil in the adapter. It’s normal for it to be darker as well, dirt makes it back there and does not drain back to the pan well.

[bobcratchet555]

Looking good. There is no seal in the back of the transmission. The tcase provides that seal so it is normal to have some oil in the adapter. It’s normal for it to be darker as well, dirt makes it back there and does not drain back to the pan well.

thanks, that makes sense.

forgot to mention, the motor mounts (flyin' iron fab) are here as well