will e wrote:dodgerammi,
It would be interesting to know if the motor can be operated by supplying negative to the body of the motor and positive to either of the terminals.
Need some clarification. Was the motor connected for this test?turtlehead wrote:Ok... hooked up my meter to the terminal strip to the two wires I have running to the motor (this is my second time ever "experimenting with the meter" so not sure if I did things right) but... I did NOT get 12v and -12v - I got like .3400 or something and less flipping the switch either direction. - never got a "-" "negative" reading.SJTD wrote:I should've thought of this before. Do you have a meter?
Hook it up to the two motor leads on the terminal strip and see what you get. Should be 12V in one direction and -12V in the other.
It's not unheard of to get a bad rebuilt motor.
Bad ground? - pretty sure my ground is solid, but I'll double check.
What else should I try/check?
Beating a dead horse here...SJTD wrote:I thought the early motors had a ground wire but doesn't matter to this discussion.
The late motor is not grounded. The two wires are the only connections. As splained above the motor gets 12V to one lead or the other with the unpowered lead being grounded.
If the old motor is internally grounded with 12v being applied to one lead or the other seems to me the motor would still work with the relay system. If it has two sets of windings seems to me grounding both ends of the unused winding, which is what the relay system would do, shouldn't be a problem. Not so?
babywag wrote:Beating a dead horse here...SJTD wrote:I thought the early motors had a ground wire but doesn't matter to this discussion.
The late motor is not grounded. The two wires are the only connections. As splained above the motor gets 12V to one lead or the other with the unpowered lead being grounded.
If the old motor is internally grounded with 12v being applied to one lead or the other seems to me the motor would still work with the relay system. If it has two sets of windings seems to me grounding both ends of the unused winding, which is what the relay system would do, shouldn't be a problem. Not so?
Again the early motors are grounded via mounting/body ground.
One leg and ONLY one leg gets 12v to operate, the other leg makes the motor spin the opposite direction.
You cannot ground either terminal of the motor.
I learned this on my '73, putting ground to one terminal and 12v to the other KILLED my motor.
Unfortunate that you find discussion useless.babywag wrote:Beating a dead horse here...SJTD wrote:I thought the early motors had a ground wire but doesn't matter to this discussion.
The late motor is not grounded. The two wires are the only connections. As splained above the motor gets 12V to one lead or the other with the unpowered lead being grounded.
If the old motor is internally grounded with 12v being applied to one lead or the other seems to me the motor would still work with the relay system. If it has two sets of windings seems to me grounding both ends of the unused winding, which is what the relay system would do, shouldn't be a problem. Not so?
Again the early motors are grounded via mounting/body ground.
One leg and ONLY one leg gets 12v to operate, the other leg makes the motor spin the opposite direction.
You cannot ground either terminal of the motor.
I learned this on my '73, putting ground to one terminal and 12v to the other KILLED my motor.
But wouldn't the winding already be grounded? If the body is used as the ground the circuit would be continuously grounded, ready for power to be applied to the terminal, through the coil and into the ground. Adding a second ground shouldn't matter.SJTD wrote:Unfortunate that you find discussion useless.babywag wrote:Beating a dead horse here...SJTD wrote:I thought the early motors had a ground wire but doesn't matter to this discussion.
The late motor is not grounded. The two wires are the only connections. As splained above the motor gets 12V to one lead or the other with the unpowered lead being grounded.
If the old motor is internally grounded with 12v being applied to one lead or the other seems to me the motor would still work with the relay system. If it has two sets of windings seems to me grounding both ends of the unused winding, which is what the relay system would do, shouldn't be a problem. Not so?
Again the early motors are grounded via mounting/body ground.
One leg and ONLY one leg gets 12v to operate, the other leg makes the motor spin the opposite direction.
You cannot ground either terminal of the motor.
I learned this on my '73, putting ground to one terminal and 12v to the other KILLED my motor.
So grounding the unused side is a no-no. I guess what goes on is that if that winding is grounded it is in effect a shorted generator and would add a load to the other winding. Hadn't thought of that.
Maybe splains what happened to Turtle's motor.
Can't answer whether a newer motor will fit yours. I thought the early motors had three wires.turtlehead wrote:babywag wrote:Beating a dead horse here...SJTD wrote:I thought the early motors had a ground wire but doesn't matter to this discussion.
The late motor is not grounded. The two wires are the only connections. As splained above the motor gets 12V to one lead or the other with the unpowered lead being grounded.
If the old motor is internally grounded with 12v being applied to one lead or the other seems to me the motor would still work with the relay system. If it has two sets of windings seems to me grounding both ends of the unused winding, which is what the relay system would do, shouldn't be a problem. Not so?
Again the early motors are grounded via mounting/body ground.
One leg and ONLY one leg gets 12v to operate, the other leg makes the motor spin the opposite direction.
You cannot ground either terminal of the motor.
I learned this on my '73, putting ground to one terminal and 12v to the other KILLED my motor.
Sooo - knowing I have an early motor and knowing that the wiring harness is not right for that.
Will a later motor mount correctly to the same bracket/gears and all of the lifting mechanism?
Seems like the easiest solution at this point is to buy a newer motor
Ok, for the test with my meter, I have no idea how to properly do that, I just shoved the pointy things into the wires that I had running to the motor and hit the switch to see if I was getting 12vSJTD wrote:turtlehead wrote:babywag wrote:
But you still haven't answered about how you had things wired up for your test with the meter. Still might be a problem with the wiring. In fact I'll say there is UNLESS you had the motor hooked up when you tested it with the meter.
If the relays are wired for the newer motor simply removing the ground wires from the 87a terminals on the relay sockets "should" make it work for the early motor.
I say "should" because I don't know for sure how it is wired. I assume Serehill wired it in the simple logical way. I suppose there are other ways it could have been done but I'm not going to waste time trying to figger odd ways it might have been done.
If you want to post some pichers showing the wires going into the relays it would help those trying to diagnose it.
Awesome... I'll try and post photos of the meter tonight.will e wrote:If you post up a pic of your multi-meter I can help tell you what setting it should be on and how to test if your relay system is working as expected.
Like SJTD said, testing the motor is easy. Two wires directly from the battery. Hold or tape the negative wire to a metal spot on the motor case.
Take the positive wire and touch one of the two terminals, then the other, and see if the motor operates in either direction.
SJTD wrote:
If the relays are wired for the newer motor simply removing the ground wires from the 87a terminals on the relay sockets "should" make it work for the early motor.
I say "should" because I don't know for sure how it is wired. I assume Serehill wired it in the simple logical way. I suppose there are other ways it could have been done but I'm not going to waste time trying to figger odd ways it might have been done.