1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

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GrandW
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1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby GrandW » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:21 pm

Hi All - this board is awesome, so thought I'd try to add to it. There's so much good info here already, but maybe it'll help someone.

Here's a picture of the starting point. The oil is looking like chocolate milk, so something is leaking in the engine. Power steering fluid seems to spray out of the gasket that goes into the reservoir, and the middle the car appears to have a healthy leak out of what the thing in the middle is.... think it's a 4 wheel "thing".
ImageImage
Last edited by GrandW on Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer

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dodgerammit
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby dodgerammit » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:40 pm

4 wheel thing=transfer case. Body looks solid. that is a good starting point. I'd drain the oil and put on a new filter and run new oil. Than test run it for a bit and see. May just be condensation from sitting.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with tan interior) AMC 360/727/229 TFI conversion, MSD streetfire ignition, D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj:

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will e
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby will e » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:46 am

Welcome to the board! Yeah, it looks pretty solid. And the engine looks complete. Hopefully no one messed with it very much. Nice find!
81 Wagoneer - 'WILL E' Retired

82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau Moab Seats/RCI 6point Harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/custom bumpers and roll bar/WARN 8000/steering brace/CB/dual batts/custom TC skid plate

440sixpack
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby 440sixpack » Tue Sep 11, 2018 7:04 am

If the oil has any milky look to it then it's water in the oil. water is bad enough but antifreeze will take bearings out fast.

If this is what you're seeing don't waste your time trying to get it running just pull the engine and rebuild it . if you're restoring it you're going to do it soon anyway.

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Chubbinius
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby Chubbinius » Tue Sep 11, 2018 12:23 pm

That looks nice and solid, and a tan interior...hopefully the engine and leaks are easy to rectify for you.
1970 1414X Wagoneer "The Pig"
-Custom Special
-Dauntless 350 V8
-D27 front/D44 rear
2006 XK (65th Ann Edition)-DD

GrandW
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby GrandW » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:24 am

dodgerammit wrote:4 wheel thing=transfer case. Body looks solid. that is a good starting point. I'd drain the oil and put on a new filter and run new oil. Than test run it for a bit and see. May just be condensation from sitting.
Ah, thanks! I'll have to see how to replace the gasket. Am not 100% clear if I'll need to move the transmission forward in order to crack it open, hopefully not.

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1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer

GrandW
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby GrandW » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:27 am

Hi All - thanks for the positive comments.

Managed to drain the oil and... it looks like that. Several gallons came out, so I think there's a lot of coolant in there. Couple of the cylinders tested low, so likely a head gasket replacement coming up.

Also started to label the engine for removal. Timing belt cover had a big hole in it, so guess it'll need a new one of those!
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1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer

440sixpack
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby 440sixpack » Thu Sep 13, 2018 3:30 pm

It's the timing chain cover. and if it has a hole behind the water pump that's how the water got in the engine.


You have no choice but to completely tear the engine down. if they stopped running it at the first sign of water in the oil you might get lucky.


Don't buy a repop junk cover. find a good used original.

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dodgerammit
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby dodgerammit » Thu Sep 13, 2018 11:01 pm

440sixpack wrote:It's the timing chain cover. and if it has a hole behind the water pump that's how the water got in the engine.


You have no choice but to completely tear the engine down. if they stopped running it at the first sign of water in the oil you might get lucky.


Don't buy a repop junk cover. find a good used original.


Yep. Those pics look bad. I'd even be worried if they stopped it quick, but it sat for a while after. I'd second the tear down and rebuild just for peace of mind. Or you could go to the dark side and do a driveline swap. LS swaps are common. A few have swapped to mopar magnum engines. I think there's someone here who's done a 351 windsor swap. Or you can get a remanned block and put a nice cam in it along with 4 bbl intake and decent carb for probably the best bang for buck.
84 Grand Waggy-Radio Flyer (Garnet Red/3M Ebony Metallic woodgrain, with tan interior) AMC 360/727/229 TFI conversion, MSD streetfire ignition, D44/AMC20 Serehill tailgate and headlight harnesses :fsj:

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tgreese
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby tgreese » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:38 am

If I paid a decent price for this car, I'd be encouraged. People sell cars for a reason. Mechanical problems are comparatively easy to fix, and all the service parts you need are available at reasonable prices. Good looking Wagoneer ... an opportunity!

I suggest you get the TSM for your Jeep - available inexpensively on CD-ROM. This includes extensive material about your engine and the factory procedures for repair. https://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.ph ... 50&jsn=371
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green

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will e
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby will e » Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:57 am

Any thoughts on plans? If it was me I would probably try to keep that one looking original and stick with an AMC engine. Take video along with your pictures and do a really good job of keeping track of all of those vacuum lines and different control valves. With some work and love you could make this one look pretty original.

Are you in AZ or did you pass through? I see a saguaro in the gas station shot. We have a big 'thanksgiving in the desert' event each year with a bunch of the AZ FSJ folks. See the TITD thread. It's a great place to see a lot of different FSJ's and meet Jerry. (Jerry will be a source of those hard to find parts). ;)
81 Wagoneer - 'WILL E' Retired

82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau Moab Seats/RCI 6point Harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/custom bumpers and roll bar/WARN 8000/steering brace/CB/dual batts/custom TC skid plate

440sixpack
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby 440sixpack » Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:41 am

No matter what the damage is fixing it will be easy and not super expensive. as long as they didn't run the rods into the crank a grind and new bearings fixes it, and you were going to do that anyway.

And if they did rods and cranks are cheap. nothing is a big deal on a 360.

GrandW
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby GrandW » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:40 am

Good input!

Tgreese - taking your advise and getting the manuals, and the Haynes manual. More info has be better, right?

This is my 1st engine pull and rebuild. The flat bar and bore gauge are on order, but when someone says rebuild, what does that all entail? Rockers, pistons, lifters all look good. No pitting. Will definitely do all new gaskets.

More pics! Orange silicone side had been redone before. Head gasket was leaking in there.

Appreciate everyone's input. If I can get it rebuilt for the AZ gathering, I'd definitely drive it out!Image

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tgreese
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby tgreese » Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:23 am

GrandW wrote:Good input!

Tgreese - taking your advise and getting the manuals, and the Haynes manual. More info has be better, right?

Hi - well, it's better if it's correct. The parts-store Haynes and Chiltons manuals try to cover a lot of years in a compact volume, and they contain a lot of errors. And the factory manual covers a lot more systems than the parts-store manuals. The parts store manuals can be helpful for tuneup instructions, oil capacities and such. The factory manuals were written as a reference for the line mechanics at the dealerships, so they won't tell the reader a lot of simple things that a pro would be expected to know or could figure out.

GrandW wrote: ...when someone says rebuild, what does that all entail?

Generally you reach the level of "rebuild" when you buy new oversized pistons and the cylinders are bored oversized to accept the new pistons. Pistons plus machining is expensive. Usually this also involves a reconditioned crankshaft and rods with new bearings, and cylinder heads. As a novice individual, if you get to this point, it's probably going to be cheaper to buy a remanufactured engine and replace the whole thing. "Remanufactured" is a made-up term for the factory rebuilt engines that you can buy directly or through your local parts store.

"Overhaul" is a term that means keeping your existing pistons. "Refresh" is another more modern expression that means pretty much the same thing. Typically it's new cast iron rings in freshly-honed bores, a valve job and rod bearings. There's also "repair" which means just fix what's wrong. As with the rebuild or overhaul, it's hard for the inexperienced amateur to figure out just what's needed and not do more, so you may be better off to buy a reman.

Maybe you're not big on books - however, this is an easy and readable introduction to engine rebuilding: https://www.amazon.com/Engine-Builders- ... 1557882452
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green

440sixpack
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby 440sixpack » Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:31 pm

At the very least strip it down and take the block, heads, crank and rods to a machine shop and have them hot tank and mag them and check everything out. from there you'll know exactly what you have and what it needs. then you can decide what you're going to do about it.

GrandW
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby GrandW » Tue Sep 18, 2018 11:21 am

Learning so much as this goes!

Checked the tolerances of the crankshaft and that was good. Feeler gauge was all good except for 1 of the connecting rods, and then 1 of the bearings.... see the picture below. Ugghhh So close to being good but it's scored pretty good.

I think Tgreese and 440, you were right from the start... it's a rebuild. Grind the crankshaft, do smthg about the connecting rods too, and remeasure the top.

Have a straight bar to check the top and bore gauge to use this coming weekend.

Also, more panel work... ImageImage

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1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer

440sixpack
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby 440sixpack » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:06 pm

Hard to tell in pictures but if the crank has never been ground that should clean up.

How much ridge is there at the top of the bore ? if you can catch it with your fingernail you don't need to measure anything. it needs bored. and of course even if there isn't a ridge it could still need it. diameter is only part of it , out of round is the other aspect.

440sixpack
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby 440sixpack » Tue Sep 18, 2018 5:06 pm

Hard to tell in pictures but if the crank has never been ground that should clean up.

How much ridge is there at the top of the bore ? if you can catch it with your fingernail you don't need to measure anything. it needs bored. and of course even if there isn't a ridge it could still need it. diameter is only part of it , out of round and taper are the other aspects.

GrandW
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby GrandW » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:36 pm

440sixpack wrote:Hard to tell in pictures but if the crank has never been ground that should clean up.

How much ridge is there at the top of the bore ? if you can catch it with your fingernail you don't need to measure anything. it needs bored. and of course even if there isn't a ridge it could still need it. diameter is only part of it , out of round and taper are the other aspects.
All the cylinders were smooth, no ridges that I could feel. Things looked really good with the exception of that 1 crankshaft and the play between the 1 set of connecting rods.

Oh, and this didn't look stock! Will have to figure out what that metal thing is and get a new one. Chain doesn't look damaged.Image

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1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer

440sixpack
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Re: 1987 Grand Wagoneer Restoration

Postby 440sixpack » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:20 pm

That's the oil slinger. you can hammer it out and fix it, it does nothing but deflect oil from the seal and toss it elsewhere.

If you can't feel the ridge that's good. doesn't mean you don't need to bore it but at least if you do it won't take a lot to clean them up.


Side clearance between #1 and #2 you mean ?


Your bearings will have the size on them, if there is no number then they're standard . older AMC bearings has the AM logo on them from the factory . not sure about your year.


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