Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

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Topic author
firedog
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:10 pm

Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by firedog »

Hey gang --

So here's the short version. I'm supposed to be in Moab in a week. I need help identifying parts and some assistance based on diagrams of hooking up my vacuum system appropriately. I have/had a stock 1990 GW that I put a Howell TBI system on with a DUI electronic distributor/coil system. I got it running, but now its really really running terribly rough, doesn't want to idle all of a sudden, smells very rich, smoking white a little bit and wants to run a short time after you shut the key off. I don't believe I have the vacuum system set up correctly per what Howell has identified...but my stock intake doesn't have what matches any diagrams I can find online in 1990 jeep manuals. Hoping some of you can help me identify the ports and what they would be to. First off, here is the Howell Vacuum schematic they want me to use (I believe):
Image
and here is a schematic I found for 1990 vacuum :
Image

I need help identifying ports because mine don't seem to match. I'm obviously not the first owner and I haven't changed anything other than remove hoses, but haven't changed any valves or porting out of the intake manifold. I will try and give descriptions for these pictures and we'll label them #1, #2, etc.

So here's #1. Far back passenger side on intake manifold, directly next to valve cover. It has a hose connected to it that runs into the heater core area.
Image

Here's #2 Its the slightly out of focused darker black one with a 90* bend that I have a hose on and plugged off with a bolt for now. It's back of the manifold, almost center (toward firewall side) ALSO #3, we'll call the one in the foreground, bottom middle of the pic with a single line that goes up to one of those vacuum "spheres" on my firewall about the size of a softball.
Image

#4 is directly behind the TBI / carb unit toward the firewall. It has two ports, one I have capped off, the other is running right now to a vacuum port on the front of my TBI unit (there is a good chance that this is NOT the way it should be hooked up...just for info)
Image

#5 is a two port deal, both I have capped right now. This is directly in front of the TBI / carb unit towards the front of the waggy.
Image

Finally, #6 is the yellow 3 port deal on the bottom left of the picture. The picture is a little skewed, but you can see the yellow plugs from both the #5 one in front of the TBI/carb unit and the yellow plug on the front of my TBI / carb unit itself to help show where it is relative to that.

I'm all about making simple and trying to make thing as fool proof as possible. I'm thinking about eliminating the cruise control function / vacuum portion as well...just to have one less thing to go wrong. But that's for another day.

What I really need is some help identifying what #1-6 ARE, and how and where I should be hooking them up...relative to the TBI Howell system diagram I suppose.

I have to get this thing running and behaving right...I need to start with identifying what these are and how to hook them up. I know things weren't right because awhile ago I have some blocked off and i created enough pressure in my crankcase to start blowing oil out the dipstick. It's not doing that now, but I NEED HELP!!! And I'm stressing and banging my head against the wall right now...I just don't know this 360 motor like I should. It's new to me and staring and these schematics isn't helping me right now.

Thanks SO much in advance for the help....REALLY appreciate and NEED HELP! CHEERS!!

M

Topic author
firedog
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Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:10 pm

Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by firedog »

P.S. I do not have PCV valves on my valve covers. They are solid valve covers.

Cheap Hobby
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Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by Cheap Hobby »

Firedog, if you want send me your phone# and a good time to call pacific time and I will see if we can get it figured out. I have a 79 but the intakes didn't change just the crap attached to them. You might also reach out to Tatsadasayago he was a jeep tech at that time. I am not sure of his work schedule tight now.

Mitch
79 Cherokee WT QT Golden Eagle white with gold windows "Pigger" only blows hubs the night before a road trip or the clodest night of year. Has only been towed cause of stupid.
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Stuka
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Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by Stuka »

Moving this to EFI tech.
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Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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Stuka
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Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by Stuka »

That vacuum diagram from Howell that you show is for a 258, not a 360.

Are you using a 258 TBI on the 360, or did you just find the wrong instructions? If it's a 258 TBI, it's not going to run right without a whole new tune.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
firedog
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Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by firedog »

Hey guys...so I have a 360...thats the diagram I was given form Howell...which obviously isn't correct. I think I worked through most of it, but still remains to be seen. I have no EGR I discovered, and no PCV valve. SO, basically i'm picking up a PCV valve in the am, running that from PCV outlet on manifold to PV valve to TBI "C" port and to PCV port on canister. One line from my distributor advance to port "J" on TBI, and one from the purge signal port on the canister to the "A" port on the TBI. Everything else gets capped as it seems like it's either useless CPO or manifold vacuum I don't need anymore now that I have a TBI system.

thanks guys...I might still reach out to you for some help if this doesn't seem to remedy the problem. I have a big trip coming up and this is a new "unproven" rig to me...and Moab has a real funny way of vetting out any issues in a hurry. If you didn't know your rig had deficiencies...Moab will point them out. :)

If that's still ok, I might reach out to you guys later after seeing what inserting the PCV valve into the system and having the vacuums hooked up 'more correctly' than I had them before...which was WAY not correct.

Topic author
firedog
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Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by firedog »

Oh, and being almost completely unfamiliar with my new FSJ and particularly the 360...I will definitely need some assistance in the very near future. I did a TBI conversion for a SBC 350 on my YJ...but I decided to try a "kit" one from Howell this time and traded time in research and wiring up a harness with $$ and paid Howell to do it for me. :)

I know its had some idle issues and tuning issues...hopefully this will help/fix that...but if it doesn't i'll need to pick your big brains for all your vast knowledge

Topic author
firedog
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Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by firedog »

Cheap Hobby wrote:Firedog, if you want send me your phone# and a good time to call pacific time and I will see if we can get it figured out. I have a 79 but the intakes didn't change just the crap attached to them. You might also reach out to Tatsadasayago he was a jeep tech at that time. I am not sure of his work schedule tight now.

Mitch

thanks Mitch. Might still do that if it's ok with you.

Topic author
firedog
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Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by firedog »

Stuka wrote:That vacuum diagram from Howell that you show is for a 258, not a 360.

Are you using a 258 TBI on the 360, or did you just find the wrong instructions? If it's a 258 TBI, it's not going to run right without a whole new tune.
It was a 360 tune from Howell for my motor, somehow I must have ended up with the wrong set of directions I guess.... :shock:

Cheap Hobby
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Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by Cheap Hobby »

Not a problem any time. You can also get the install instructions from Howell Web site. Is your egr removed and blocked off? If not you will need to replace or block off. It won't hurt to run the egr. In the process of setting up the Howell system you clean up the egr loop.
79 Cherokee WT QT Golden Eagle white with gold windows "Pigger" only blows hubs the night before a road trip or the clodest night of year. Has only been towed cause of stupid.

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firedog
Posts: 65
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Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by firedog »

Cheap Hobby wrote:Not a problem any time. You can also get the install instructions from Howell Web site. Is your egr removed and blocked off? If not you will need to replace or block off. It won't hurt to run the egr. In the process of setting up the Howell system you clean up the egr loop.
yeah its gone and blocked off. that was prior to my ownership
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tgreese
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Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by tgreese »

Still working on this?

The CTO in the first picture has two nipples, and is meant to be for control of the EGR valve in some applications. The CTOs are valves for vacuums that switch at a specific temperature. No other CTOs are present in your pictures - only capped fittings.

Did you buy the Howell kit that is intended to be emissions legal? The V8 instructions are here - http://howellefi.com/pdfs/AMC_V8_TBI_in ... update.pdf

Here's the diagram from those instructions -

Image

You will need an EGR valve, but you should be able to use your existing CTO if it still functions. You will also need a vapor recovery canister, a PCV valve, and your catalytic converter. If you are in CA, you wil likely need a CA-approved cat. This will probably require that you keep your air injection system. If you are outside CA, there are aftermarket cats that will work without the air injection.

I expect you will need EGR and its CTO for the engine to run right, if you have the emissions-qualified kit.
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Topic author
firedog
Posts: 65
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 1:10 pm

Re: Help! Urgent need identifying and getting running

Post by firedog »

tgreese wrote:Still working on this?

The CTO in the first picture has two nipples, and is meant to be for control of the EGR valve in some applications. The CTOs are valves for vacuums that switch at a specific temperature. No other CTOs are present in your pictures - only capped fittings.

Did you buy the Howell kit that is intended to be emissions legal? The V8 instructions are here - http://howellefi.com/pdfs/AMC_V8_TBI_in ... update.pdf

Here's the diagram from those instructions -

Image

You will need an EGR valve, but you should be able to use your existing CTO if it still functions. You will also need a vapor recovery canister, a PCV valve, and your catalytic converter. If you are in CA, you wil likely need a CA-approved cat. This will probably require that you keep your air injection system. If you are outside CA, there are aftermarket cats that will work without the air injection.

I expect you will need EGR and its CTO for the engine to run right, if you have the emissions-qualified kit.
Thankfully I do not live in California...for many reasons. :D No offense if you live in california. :) That being said...I did not get the emissions legal California version from Howell.

So, what I have working right now is no EGR, have the PCV valve hooked up to the TBI unit and canister, the vacuum from the TBI to the dizzy advance, and the purge sensor line from the canister to the TBI unit. Everything else got vacuum caps. Put a new set of platinum plugs in it and ran it around all day. I most definitely did NOT have it hooked up right previously...like not even close. But today, its like a whole new animal. Been running around flawlessly without and issues and tons and tons of crisp responsive power. I'm diggin' it big time! I'll try and draw up a schematic of what I ended up doing, along with posting a couple of pics...
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