Full Time T-Case for NV4500

[Loren Jones]

Hi,

My diesel swap project will use an NV4500 and that trans came with an NP241 included. I know the 241 is a fine case and is reasonably strong for general use, but I live in a snowy climate and think I would really like to have a full time case. I've really been enjoying the full time capability in my '86 GW rustbucket snow beater.

The NP242 looks like it would be great for my needs. Does anyone know if it can be used with an NV4500 (29 splilne)?

Any other full time cases that aren't stupid expensive and would work in this application?

[jaber]

Lots of knowledge here...

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/tr ... ateway.htm

[Stuka]

Are you sure yours is a 29 spline, and not a 23? If you have a 23 spline version, there are NP242's that will work. But not if it is actually 29.


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[tgreese]

Conventional wisdom says you cannot use a full time case with a manual transmission. The best full-time cases use some kind of friction coupler (clutches, viscous, whatever), and that cannot withstand the impact load of a manual transmission. Automatics only.

[Loren Jones]

I am not at home right now so can't go count so the short answer is "no, I'm not sure it is 29 spline". I was basing my 29 spline statement on this info from wiki

"Standard Duty 1992.5–2005 order code DDP:
All Years have Dodge small block bellhousing to engine bolt pattern
1992.5–2002 Used with 5.9 V8(5.2L v8 used NV3500)
2003–2005 5.7 hemi offered with 2500/3500 only
1992.5 only 1" diameter 19 Spline input shaft
1993–UP 1.125" diameter 10 Spline input shaft
1992.5–UP 2wd 30 spline output
1992.5-2000 4wd 23 spline output
2001–UP 4wd 29 spline output

Heavy Duty 1994–2005 order code DDX:
All Years used with 5.9 Cummins Turbo Diesel and 8.0 V-10
All Years 5.9 Cummins Turbo Diesel & 8.0 V10 bellhousing to engine bolt pattern
All Years 1.25" diameter 10 Spline input shaft
All Years 2wd 31 spline output
All Years 4wd 29 spline output"

I highlighted the line that I think applies. I think the trans is from a Cummins Dodge. I am not 100% sure what vehicle the trans came out of though so it could be that it is from one of the older gas 4WD's and has 23 spline. I'll have to count.

Are you sure yours is a 29 spline, and not a 23? If you have a 23 spline version, there are NP242's that will work. But not if it is actually 29.


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[Loren Jones]

Well that would be a show stopper. Has anyone here had experience using a manual with a full time case?

Conventional wisdom says you cannot use a full time case with a manual transmission. The best full-time cases use some kind of friction coupler (clutches, viscous, whatever), and that cannot withstand the impact load of a manual transmission. Automatics only.

[derf]

The 242 has no friction coupler. It's either locked or completely open depending on the part time or full time selection with the shifter. I don't know if it will stand up to a manual transmission better or not. But that's how it works.

[acct21]

Conventional wisdom says you cannot use a full time case with a manual transmission. The best full-time cases use some kind of friction coupler (clutches, viscous, whatever), and that cannot withstand the impact load of a manual transmission. Automatics only.

Weren't most of the AMC Eagles 4 and 5spds? They used the 119/129, which I thought were both viscous-coupled full-time gearboxes.

[Stuka]

Conventional wisdom says you cannot use a full time case with a manual transmission. The best full-time cases use some kind of friction coupler (clutches, viscous, whatever), and that cannot withstand the impact load of a manual transmission. Automatics only.

This is not true. The 242 from an XJ or GM has an open center diff when in AWD mode. But typically they are driven in RWD mode. The Grand Cherokee version does have a viscous coupler. But the VC should live fine with a manual.

Subaru's have been using VC's with manuals for 20 years. Many European makes have as well (Audi for instance).


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[Loren Jones]

Thanks for all the info folks. I am going to check the output shaft spline count on my 4500 tonight. If it is 29 I'll probably just stick with the NP241 I have but if it is 23 I may look for a 242 or even a 203.

[carnuck]

Keep in mind that 242 comes in 21 and 23 spline! '91 up to be sure it's 23.

[Stuka]

Thanks for all the info folks. I am going to check the output shaft spline count on my 4500 tonight. If it is 29 I'll probably just stick with the NP241 I have but if it is 23 I may look for a 242 or even a 203.

Most 203's are 27 spline input (I think some are 10 spline). Plus it will require modification to work with the standard NP round pattern. And its a giant, heavy, cast iron case.

[Loren Jones]

Thanks for the info and heads up. I hadn't done any research before I commented about the 203 but had only read about it in general and thought it sounded like a cool, durable full time case. I'm not that into the idea though to try to have some kind of one off adaptor fabbed when I have a perfectly good 241 that bolts right up. I didn't even make it into the garage to count NV4500 splines last night because it's cold and I had people over.

I really like the idea of full time 4wd in the snowy climate here but I can always just slide it into 4hi when needed and just use the 241. Hopefully tonight I'll go count those splines and finalize the tcase plan.

Thanks for all the info folks. I am going to check the output shaft spline count on my 4500 tonight. If it is 29 I'll probably just stick with the NP241 I have but if it is 23 I may look for a 242 or even a 203.

Most 203's are 27 spline input (I think some are 10 spline). Plus it will require modification to work with the standard NP round pattern. And its a giant, heavy, cast iron case.

[Loren Jones]

I just spoke with Dave at Novak. He's an extremely knowledgeable guy.

I asked him about using an NP242 with the 29 Spline NV4500. He said it can be done with a little custom work. He also recommended the 242 out of the H1 Hummer. He said the light duty Jeep 242 one that offered 2Hi in addition to 4Hi and 4Low was probably a little weak for my application. He said that he couldn't think of any other Full Time case that would be a good idea in this application. The thing is (besides price) that if I go with one of the Hummer NV242's with the modified input gear I don't have 2WD anymore. It is 4 Hi and 4 Lo only. I guess it's really not that much different than running a rig without locking hubs as far as mileage and wear go.

Are there any huge disadvantages to running all time 4WD?

Thanks,
Loren

[Stuka]

Not really. Fuel economy difference would be pretty small. The H1 version still has lock for both high and low range, and it is stronger.

As long as the conversion does not cost too much, I think you will be fine.

[fsj454]

I have a chevy nv4500 on a dodge 205 .believe it or not the dodge transfer case came with a 29 spline input for nv4500 .the dodge 205 has round patern for dodge nv4500 29 spline and a rear output drum ebrake on tcase .all i had to do was change tcase input to long 32 spline to match the 32 spline output on nv4500 .100.00 for adapter and it is married .you could have taken this dodge 205 tcase and factory adapter and bolted it rite to your dodge nv4500 with a stock 29 spline coupler 205 are all cast iron very strong .I converted my 205 to twin sticks

[csuengr]

Conventional wisdom says you cannot use a full time case with a manual transmission. The best full-time cases use some kind of friction coupler (clutches, viscous, whatever), and that cannot withstand the impact load of a manual transmission. Automatics only.

Tell that to Toyota. The only way to get a full-time transfer case in an FJ was with the manual transmission.

[Loren Jones]

That is pretty cool. I never really looked at the 205 since I was kind of interested in going with a full time case so I didn't know they came in 29 spline. Great rock solid heavy duty case though....

I have a chevy nv4500 on a dodge 205 .believe it or not the dodge transfer case came with a 29 spline input for nv4500 .the dodge 205 has round patern for dodge nv4500 29 spline and a rear output drum ebrake on tcase .all i had to do was change tcase input to long 32 spline to match the 32 spline output on nv4500 .100.00 for adapter and it is married .you could have taken this dodge 205 tcase and factory adapter and bolted it rite to your dodge nv4500 with a stock 29 spline coupler 205 are all cast iron very strong .I converted my 205 to twin sticks

[Loren Jones]

Well I just got my 29 spline input Humvee NP242 from Novak. It looks great and fits as it should. I hope it will serve me well for many years. Thanks everyone for the input and help.

[Stuka]

Awesome

Now you just have to wait until the rig is drivable