Landcruiser to J20 - wise or not?

[wedgetail]

OK I know this may call for an obvious reponse on a Jeep forum, but I also posted it on a 'cruiser forum. I currently have an HJ47 Landcruiser Troopcarrier. I want/need a ute (pickup to you 'mericans) for firewood, hunting and timber hauling, mostly on this property. I was thinking about either converting my troopcarrier or selling it and buying the trayback version. I tried this once but it didn't sell for what the traybacks are worth.

But I have for over 15 years (and I'm only 28...) lusted after a J20, but never seriously thought I'd get a chance at one for a reasonable price considering they're pretty uncommon here. However, coming up I may have the chance to buy one in good roadworthy condition. Assuming I can raise the cash (probably the biggest if here), I'm trying to decide whether it's a good move or not. My big question is, how do they compare in general strength, ruggedness, simplicity and build quality? Will I be disappointed going from Toyota to Jeep? I have a sneaky suspicion the 'cruiser may be more reliable - especially being a traditional under-stressed diesel, but my job is a mechanic so I can take a SMALL hit on reliability just for the fact J20s are so AWESOME!

I've come to love the simple hardeness of older (and newer) landcruisers, and know them very well now due to my job (I maintain a fleet of 8 of them). But I've recently discovered I have an unsettling urge for a change every now and then, and a J20 has many attractions - 2tonne payload, great looks, more comfort, bigger cab, bigger tray. But this won't be any good if it leaves me stranded somewhere way out due to a snapped component or failed electrical component. I guess it isn't impossible I might drop in a japanese diesel into it one day (12HT or 1HZ maybe) but I like the idea of a 258 right now.

There's the elephant-in-the-corner issue of parts availability but I'm ignoring that right now. Landcruiser parts are everywhere in this country, and I'm falling over wrecks and parts (old and new) here so I wouldn't have that luxury with a J20. But I'll swallow that one.

So can anyone comment on the two together - does anyone have experience of both?

[lindel]

Not knowing many details about the J-20, I'll go with this. The AMC family of engines is fairly reliable, if given a bit of TLC. Their big weakness is the oiling system and a penchant for vacuum leaks (the miles and miles of rubber under the hood...). The oiling system is adequate (again, TLC comes into play) as long as the oil changes are kept up. Basically, if you rebuild it, there are mods to the oiling system that are worth a look.

The other big "weak link" would probably be the ignition. The Ford system can be troublesome at times, and getting decent parts can be an issue even in the states. If you do go the FSJ route, see about getting and keeping a spare ignition module handy, or doing an HEI swap, or possibly a Mallory Unilite system.

Other than that, they're pretty good as vehicles go. Most parts (aside from the engine and body) are sourced from GM or Ford. Diesel engines can be swapped in and give you an edge in fuel efficiency and reliability, and I'm sure you've got options along those lines that we don't have here.

Between here and the mothership, you'll have the biggest knowledge base available for FSJs. Don't be bashful if you've got questions.

[wedgetail]

Not knowing many details about the J-20, I'll go with this. The AMC family of engines is fairly reliable, if given a bit of TLC. Their big weakness is the oiling system and a penchant for vacuum leaks (the miles and miles of rubber under the hood...). The oiling system is adequate (again, TLC comes into play) as long as the oil changes are kept up. Basically, if you rebuild it, there are mods to the oiling system that are worth a look.

The other big "weak link" would probably be the ignition. The Ford system can be troublesome at times, and getting decent parts can be an issue even in the states. If you do go the FSJ route, see about getting and keeping a spare ignition module handy, or doing an HEI swap, or possibly a Mallory Unilite system.

Other than that, they're pretty good as vehicles go. Most parts (aside from the engine and body) are sourced from GM or Ford. Diesel engines can be swapped in and give you an edge in fuel efficiency and reliability, and I'm sure you've got options along those lines that we don't have here.

Between here and the mothership, you'll have the biggest knowledge base available for FSJs. Don't be bashful if you've got questions.

Thanks lindel. Glad for some insightful feedback. You're right there is a very good knowledge base on here and IFSJA (it seems to be known as the mothership?) and I've done a bit of reading. It seems the 258 doesn't have the oiling issues of the 360, but are you saying it's still not great? I've noticed the ignition mentioned before, as well. Is there no way to convert it to old style points? I've been working on diesels for so long now but I still remember how to handle points and I prefer the idea of having to adjust them and replace condensers than deal with enigmatically failing modules.

So you're saying apart from these motor issues they are generally strong vehicles? In comparison to what? Would you say they are overbuilt, or adequately engineered?

Have you had much to do with landcruisers?

[jaber]

Correct, the 258 does not have the oiling issue. If the one you are looking at is very low on the rust scale, these things are like tanks. I have been DDing my '75 J-20 since I put the rebuilt engine into it( I went with a Cadillac big block with TBI) and maintenance keeps 'er going. Depending on the year of the truck, you can simply swap the ignition modual for the standard Chevy type and make it easy to find them. I can get you a link when your ready for it.
It sounds like you are skilled enough to keep it up to the task you are wanting from it. I say go for it.

[Stuka]

The 258 is arguably one of the most reliable engines to ever be built in the states. I have 241k miles on mine and while its down on power and burns a little oil, it runs good.

There are certain issues that affect certain years. So when you have an idea as to what year you are looking to buy, let us know. There is nothing major really. For instance the ignition system used from 75-77 is horrible and should be replaced. But its not a major deal to swap it out to another year.

J20's were one of the better trucks from their era. GM's may have had good engines, but the rest of the truck was not so great and was prone to frame cracks and body rust (They rusted here in California) even) So I think it will do what you want.

[lindel]

You'll have to forgive me, the majority of J-20s here in the states come with 360s. The 258 is a solid engine with the one weakness being the carb (depending on the carb used). Most swap it for the Motorcraft 2100/2150 or for a Weber progressive carb.

A J-20 will serve you well for years to come with regular maintenance. As mentioned, the ignition isn't a deal breaker with your pick of systems to use.

[wedgetail]

wow, the 258 really seems to have a lot going for it. Exactly what I want to hear! The vehicle belongs to the grandfather of a work mate, it has lived in a shed all its life and was his pride and joy. It's still registered and he says in good condition with very little rust (typical for rural queensland). He reckon's it's an 80s model, with the only downer being an aluminium tray. His granddad's pretty sick and the family are being difficult about letting it go, but my mate says it's just a matter of time. He's gone up to the family property this week and will take photos of it. Depending on what the family think though this could well be out of my budget of ~AU$4000 (what I hope to sell my HJ47 for).

If the money works i'd say i'll be going for it

[BGW]

A new Toyota is certainly more reliable than an old Jeep, but I don't know about a Toyota from that era. I'd argue that FSJs are some of the most reliable Amercian vehicles from their era. Heck, my GW runs like a time clock compared to my Dad's 2001 Jetta.

The J truck is certainly more powerful, even with just the 258. For future powerplant swaps, I'm not sure if Toyota has ever made a diesel that would be feasible to swap in and make enough power. You'd be better to look at Isuzu engines if you're looking for something Japanese. I think you guys have Perkins down there, that'd be awesome. One of my dreams is to stuff a Perkins 6.354 into a FSJ.

[Stuka]

A new Toyota is certainly more reliable than an old Jeep, but I don't know about a Toyota from that era. I'd argue that FSJs are some of the most reliable Amercian vehicles from their era. Heck, my GW runs like a time clock compared to my Dad's 2001 Jetta.

The J truck is certainly more powerful, even with just the 258. For future powerplant swaps, I'm not sure if Toyota has ever made a diesel that would be feasible to swap in and make enough power. You'd be better to look at Isuzu engines if you're looking for something Japanese. I think you guys have Perkins down there, that'd be awesome. One of my dreams is to stuff a Perkins 6.354 into a FSJ.

Several AU/NZ FSJ owners have swapped in Nissan Diesels as they are fairly common as I recall. There was one guy in NZ that swapped in a Lexus V8 into his J10. That was a pretty cool swap.

[wedgetail]

A new Toyota is certainly more reliable than an old Jeep, but I don't know about a Toyota from that era. I'd argue that FSJs are some of the most reliable Amercian vehicles from their era. Heck, my GW runs like a time clock compared to my Dad's 2001 Jetta.

The J truck is certainly more powerful, even with just the 258. For future powerplant swaps, I'm not sure if Toyota has ever made a diesel that would be feasible to swap in and make enough power. You'd be better to look at Isuzu engines if you're looking for something Japanese. I think you guys have Perkins down there, that'd be awesome. One of my dreams is to stuff a Perkins 6.354 into a FSJ.

yeah we're talking similar eras here. Interesting you say FSJs are considered reliable for their time - it's the legendary quality US quality problems that have concerned me so you're saying all the right stuff. I have heard people say the earlier J-trucks had stronger chassis than later ones, does that include the J20? I wouldn't be looking for more power, and if I had a healthy 258 I doubt I'd swap. An NA 'cruiser diesel would probably be a bit gutless, but a 12HT (factory turbo 4L) might be ok. Yep Perkins are about so that's an option. Isuzu and Hino would be good but they are big motors...

you guys have Perkins down there, that'd be awesome. One of my dreams is to stuff a Perkins 6.354 into a FSJ.

Several AU/NZ FSJ owners have swapped in Nissan Diesels as they are fairly common as I recall. There was one guy in NZ that swapped in a Lexus V8 into his J10. That was a pretty cool swap.

I think the J10s came out here with a 3.3 Nissan turbo as an option. Might be a bit on the small side for a J20, and apparently isn't a straight swap anyway. Also, I prefer bigger under stressed motors than small revvy ones. Perkins 6.354 would be the go though

[carnuck]

You'll have to forgive me, the majority of J-20s here in the states come with 360s. The 258 is a solid engine with the one weakness being the carb (depending on the carb used). Most swap it for the Motorcraft 2100/2150 or for a Weber progressive carb.

A J-20 will serve you well for years to come with regular maintenance. As mentioned, the ignition isn't a deal breaker with your pick of systems to use.

4.0L and EFI is the way I go.

[letank]

Rust being the major issues, you want to lift up the carpet and check the cab floor. Water tend to find its way around the wheel wells and the windshield pillars and frame. Same for the bed. The gas tank hoses can be tricky to find replacement part, but I am sure that you can install a toyota tank if needed.

As for electricals, the ammeter is known to let go and leave you stranded, but it can be bypassed. Check for wires that are hanging around the exhaust manifold.... probably not on the 6cyl, but the V8 are notorious for BBQ.

Basically most electrical part need attention at some point, from ignition switch to ignition circuit, to headlights and the vacuum control system for the heater defrost mechanism, as well as the switching of 2WD to 4WD...... the few miles of vacuum hoses can be tedious to debug.

Do you technical inspection every few years, or MOT? that can be a bit challenging....

I looked at a toyota a few years back.... but seemed to be underpowered.... so I got another FSJ....

[Stuka]

A new Toyota is certainly more reliable than an old Jeep, but I don't know about a Toyota from that era. I'd argue that FSJs are some of the most reliable Amercian vehicles from their era. Heck, my GW runs like a time clock compared to my Dad's 2001 Jetta.

The J truck is certainly more powerful, even with just the 258. For future powerplant swaps, I'm not sure if Toyota has ever made a diesel that would be feasible to swap in and make enough power. You'd be better to look at Isuzu engines if you're looking for something Japanese. I think you guys have Perkins down there, that'd be awesome. One of my dreams is to stuff a Perkins 6.354 into a FSJ.

yeah we're talking similar eras here. Interesting you say FSJs are considered reliable for their time - it's the legendary quality US quality problems that have concerned me so you're saying all the right stuff. I have heard people say the earlier J-trucks had stronger chassis than later ones, does that include the J20? I wouldn't be looking for more power, and if I had a healthy 258 I doubt I'd swap. An NA 'cruiser diesel would probably be a bit gutless, but a 12HT (factory turbo 4L) might be ok. Yep Perkins are about so that's an option. Isuzu and Hino would be good but they are big motors...

you guys have Perkins down there, that'd be awesome. One of my dreams is to stuff a Perkins 6.354 into a FSJ.

Several AU/NZ FSJ owners have swapped in Nissan Diesels as they are fairly common as I recall. There was one guy in NZ that swapped in a Lexus V8 into his J10. That was a pretty cool swap.

I think the J10s came out here with a 3.3 Nissan turbo as an option. Might be a bit on the small side for a J20, and apparently isn't a straight swap anyway. Also, I prefer bigger under stressed motors than small revvy ones. Perkins 6.354 would be the go though

The 74+ Chassis is actually the best IMHO. There is not a huge difference in them really. Not a whole lot changed from 62-87 as far as J-Trucks go. The Engines, transmissions, t-cases, and axles changed. Springs changed in one spot (Well two technically), and the electrical changed a bit (got better) over the years. But it is not difficult to mix parts that are 30 years apart in most cases.

[wedgetail]

Rust being the major issues, you want to lift up the carpet and check the cab floor. Water tend to find its way around the wheel wells and the windshield pillars and frame. Same for the bed. The gas tank hoses can be tricky to find replacement part, but I am sure that you can install a toyota tank if needed.

As for electricals, the ammeter is known to let go and leave you stranded, but it can be bypassed. Check for wires that are hanging around the exhaust manifold.... probably not on the 6cyl, but the V8 are notorious for BBQ.

Basically most electrical part need attention at some point, from ignition switch to ignition circuit, to headlights and the vacuum control system for the heater defrost mechanism, as well as the switching of 2WD to 4WD...... the few miles of vacuum hoses can be tedious to debug.

Do you technical inspection every few years, or MOT? that can be a bit challenging....

I looked at a toyota a few years back.... but seemed to be underpowered.... so I got another FSJ....

It's pretty dry in rural queensland, rust isn't really considered an issue with old vehicles. Even so I'll check it out, and I trust my mates opinion. The wiring doesn't sound great, I hate electrics. Massively... The wiring in my HJ47 is about the level I like - manual glow plugs, starter motor, IP on off and headlights! Can anything be done about the wiring or is it always going to be a headache? Can you bypass/blank all the (stupid IMO) vacuum hoses etc.? We don't have emissions testing.

Yep we have annual roadworthy inspections. What's the challenging bit - rust? If everything is mechanically sound there shouldn't be a problem.

The 74+ Chassis is actually the best IMHO. There is not a huge difference in them really. Not a whole lot changed from 62-87 as far as J-Trucks go. The Engines, transmissions, t-cases, and axles changed. Springs changed in one spot (Well two technically), and the electrical changed a bit (got better) over the years. But it is not difficult to mix parts that are 30 years apart in most cases.

Right so 80s era are kind of considered the best in all aspects? Did electrical and vacuum complexity increase though?

[mud89]

You'll have to forgive me, the majority of J-20s here in the states come with 360s. The 258 is a solid engine with the one weakness being the carb (depending on the carb used). Most swap it for the Motorcraft 2100/2150 or for a Weber progressive carb.

A J-20 will serve you well for years to come with regular maintenance. As mentioned, the ignition isn't a deal breaker with your pick of systems to use.

Yep J20 got the V8 only, except for the rigs for export which got the 258 or the V8

[mud89]

I think the J10s came out here with a 3.3 Nissan turbo as an option. Might be a bit on the small side for a J20, and apparently isn't a straight swap anyway. Also, I prefer bigger under stressed motors than small revvy ones. Perkins 6.354 would be the go though

I think that you are talking actually of the "CJ10" which was called "J10" in Australia
The CJ10 was a jeep 1 tonner of the 80s different from the US J10 : it got the AMC 258ci or the Nissan Diesel SD33 in line 6 cylinders 198ci
Specs of the diesel were : 70kw@3600, 215Nm@1800, so the diesel was less powerfull than the 258

[wedgetail]

I think that you are talking actually of the "CJ10" which was called "J10" in Australia
The CJ10 was a jeep 1 tonner of the 80s different from the US J10 : it got the AMC 258ci or the Nissan Diesel SD33 in line 6 cylinders 198ci
Specs of the diesel were : 70kw@3600, 215Nm@1800, so the diesel was less powerfull than the 258

yep sorry I forgot we use different names. If you said CJ10 here people would say 'you mean J10'... Thanks for the diesel figures - what are the 258 specs by the way?

Yep J20 got the V8 only, except for the rigs for export which got the 258 or the V8

yeah in fact most J20s here are 258 I think

[lindel]

We still take the CJ10 as a "one off" cousin. Not sure what kind of technical help we'd for it though, not many people here own one.

[wedgetail]

We still take the CJ10 as a "one off" cousin. Not sure what kind of technical help we'd for it though, not many people here own one.

no dramas - I have no intention of buying one. Apart from their IMO ugly looks they don' offer enough over a 'cruiser to swap

[mud89]

I think that you are talking actually of the "CJ10" which was called "J10" in Australia
The CJ10 was a jeep 1 tonner of the 80s different from the US J10 : it got the AMC 258ci or the Nissan Diesel SD33 in line 6 cylinders 198ci
Specs of the diesel were : 70kw@3600, 215Nm@1800, so the diesel was less powerfull than the 258

yep sorry I forgot we use different names. If you said CJ10 here people would say 'you mean J10'... Thanks for the diesel figures - what are the 258 specs by the way?

258 specs by comparison : 83.5 kw (around 112hp SAE) @3000, 271 NM @ 1600 (good low end torque)

I got a spec sheet for the australian J20 if you are interested by a scan