Fuel Tank Straps

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67GMC
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by 67GMC »

Thanks Tim-I had to do that a few times as the nearest parts store doesn't seem to stock many of the fittings but they have lots of those small lengths with fittings on them. I just bought two small steel lines with the right fittings on them and it was cheaper than buying the pack of 3 fittings. I just cut the end of the pipe and slid off the fittings (waste of a piece of pipe but what can you do). Can't understand selling an odd number of fittings. There are always two ends on a piece of pipe aren't there? Same with selling packs of 4 lug nuts (!).
My Stable:
1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8, Auto, SelecTrac
1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 4.0L I6, Auto, Selectrac
And a few more....

sierrablue
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by sierrablue »

Not always; on some fuel lines you have a fitting on one end and a hose with a clamp on the other.

4 packs of lug nuts are frustrating, esp. in standard (vs. metric) sizes...I'd expect it if the new cars used the same threads and stuff but they don't... of course if they went to 5 like Ford and IH used, as well as the early Jeeps and most cars of the time, we'd all still be complaining...

Actually now I think about it they do it in sets of 4 because that way if you need a full set, you just buy as many sets as there are lug nuts on one wheel.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
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There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
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67GMC
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by 67GMC »

I didn't think about the pack size of 4 representing the number of wheels and the number of studs therefore being the number of packs. Packs of 4 for six bolt lugs = 6 packs. Cool. OK. I take it back then. Now it makes sense unless you are just replacing the nuts on one wheel.
My Stable:
1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8, Auto, SelecTrac
1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 4.0L I6, Auto, Selectrac
And a few more....
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67GMC
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by 67GMC »

Sorry to keep banging the drum on this job. Does anyone know if the two vent lines for the fuel tank are connected together(like with a T) and then run to the vacuum cannister or do they connect on top of the fuel tank and then a single line to the vacuum canister? I can only find one hard line running up from and it seems to be for the vent line closest to the fuel sender. My plastic tank has a second vent line at the end closest to the drivers seat but it wasn't attached to anything when I dropped the tank. Not sure if it matters or not.
Thanks
My Stable:
1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8, Auto, SelecTrac
1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 4.0L I6, Auto, Selectrac
And a few more....
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tgreese
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by tgreese »

They must join.
Jeep82FTVCcanister (408 x 402).jpg
Clearly pictured in the '82 TSM on the Tom Collins site.

You are not looking at the liquid return line from the fuel pump? There's also a vent to the engine compartment from the transfer case, but not part of the FTVC system.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
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67GMC
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by 67GMC »

Thanks Tim-I saw that picture too. I'm not sure why you would use two separate rubber hose lines run to the canister from the tank and then just "y" them together. I don't have that much rubber hose on hand so I think I'll just " T" them at the tank and run one line to the existing hard line that goes to the canister.

I found the vent line from the transfer case. It seems happy where it is. The hard line from the tank vent(s) runs up the passenger side
My Stable:
1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8, Auto, SelecTrac
1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 4.0L I6, Auto, Selectrac
And a few more....
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tgreese
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by tgreese »

Dunno ... unless they want any spill-over between lines to be elevated. The "roll-over check valves" should block any liquid. Earliest designs used first an expansion tank, and later in '73 onward a liquid check valve. The "roll-over" valves came with the plastic tanks, AFAIK. Not sure whether that's a meaningful name change or not. Clearly you don't want liquid reaching the canister, regardless of what the parts are called or how it's configured.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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67GMC
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by 67GMC »

I saw on one of the older TSMs that the check valves were external to the tank and had two lines going to it from the tank and then a single line to the canister. Maybe when they changed to the poly tanks with tank mounted roll-over/check valves they just kept the two rubber lines and ran them both up to the canister and into a "Y" fitting (since the canister only had one port for the fuel tank vent. AMC was known for just making things work without a full re-design. I can't find and remnants of a second hard line so thinking it's rubber for the one check valve and steel for the other?

Just saw on the parts manual that there is supposed to be a hard line for each port (at least there is part number on diagram). J536 1733-Might have to re-think this now.
Last edited by 67GMC on Sun May 28, 2023 7:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
My Stable:
1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8, Auto, SelecTrac
1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 4.0L I6, Auto, Selectrac
And a few more....
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tgreese
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by tgreese »

Yes, some of the vent plumbing moved inside the tank. The tanks for '71-72 have four vent lines, one from each corner. They also have an expansion tank in the rear quarter, V8s have a check valve under the hood - not sixes - and vented directly to the crankcase(!) For '73 they changed the plumbing inside the tanks and reduced the vents to two, added a rear-quarter mounted check valve, and the charcoal canister (where required).

Note my J20 tank has a single check valve centrally located on the tank, and a single hose. Seems to work ok. The CJ and wagons have two check valves on the long axis of the tank. The J-truck tank is deeper than either, and more compact. Clear Jeep intended always to have one vent in the vapor pocket of the tank, and the geometry requires two check valves for the longer shallower tanks.

Mmm. Kinda think Jeep would not have kept the extra hose without some purpose. They updated nearly everything for 1980, and optimizing the hose length seems obvious. The J-trucks seem to do fine with a single steel line as far as the firewall. ... Dunno.

The parts book will show both or either rubber or steel lines. This is from the page for the '80 wagon (I expect this is unchanged through the last year):

model10fueltank1980 (874 x 638).jpg

Notice there are two vent lines going forward, both labeled NA (not a service part).
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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67GMC
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by 67GMC »

That's a great pic! Shows the vent lines and check valves (and straps) clearly. Thanks for this-just what I was looking for. I've got the printed MR253 manual but can't see any details on the tank. Am I missing a manual? Is this picture from another source?
My fuel supply and return lines were going down the frame rail on the passenger side with the rear brake line. They look stock. This pic looks like the fuel supply line from the sender is going across to the passenger side similar to where my rubber vent line was attached. Maybe it's just the orientation of this picture.
My Stable:
1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8, Auto, SelecTrac
1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 4.0L I6, Auto, Selectrac
And a few more....
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tgreese
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by tgreese »

F-74080: https://bjsoffroad.com/1974-1980-jeep-j ... arts-book/

Covers all models, not just J-series. Also available on CD-ROM from RockAuto, but I have a print copy from BJ's.

This is for 1980, and details could change. There is a later parts book available, which might show a change. My experience says Jeep will recycle the drawings for later years, even if the detail changes. They saw no need to change as long as the reader can identify the part needed. They also used the same drawing across several years, even if some details didn't apply or were changed year-to-year.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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67GMC
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by 67GMC »

I think I found the line! I still have the Y connection on the canister with two rubber lines to hard lines (but hard to trace down back of engine). One of the hard lines goes back from there and is dead-ended to rubber tube laying on top of the transfer case (it has a vent valve on the end but I think that's just someone not thinking right). There's a hard line as well from the transfer case. It looks like three hard lines going forward and up the back of engine area: two must be the vent lines from the tank and the third is from the transfer case. Does that make sense? Tim-I think you mentioned that transfer case line and I thought it was the rubber line hanging there with a vent-valve on the end. It's connected to the hard line going to the Y on the canister so it makes no sense to be like that. It must be the other vent line.
My Stable:
1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8, Auto, SelecTrac
1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 4.0L I6, Auto, Selectrac
And a few more....
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tgreese
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by tgreese »

There should be a rubber line from the front axle to a vent cap. Usually that's clamped to a radiator bolt. Don't know about the transfer case vent. A wagon is not the same as a J-truck.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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devildog80
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by devildog80 »

My '84 GW vent lines join just off the tank into a single hard line up to the back of the engine, then rubber to canister.
TC vent is rubber to hard line along transmission case and attached to filler/auto trans tube where it comes up near top of tube then does a 180* down and is open to air.
Probably should have short rubber line there with vent cap, but mine does not.
Tough to get pics, or even see it, but traced it when I had the tank dropped.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
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67GMC
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by 67GMC »

Thanks-I'm going to double-check today. There is a nipple on the transfer case with a rubber line to it. That's going up to the firewall area. A second rubber line has one of those vent/valve things on the end but the end is zip-tired to the trans-case and the rubber line goes to the engine area. I'm going to blow some air from the canister side to the hoses and check what's what this afternoon.
My Stable:
1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8, Auto, SelecTrac
1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 4.0L I6, Auto, Selectrac
And a few more....
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tgreese
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by tgreese »

I think you alluded to this above - the line from above in the engine compartment down to the vent cap does not make sense. DSPO action, most likely.

Somehow I recall that the transfer case vent is a hard line to the engine compartment, and makes a U bend (?) to aim the outlet down. No cap per se. If it points up, you could add a cap. Dorman has them - https://www.dormanproducts.com/p-89204-924-284.aspx Available from any parts store.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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67GMC
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by 67GMC »

OK-Now confirmed by air compressor and some long lengths of rubber tubing attached to the tubing at canister.

The rubber line that had a mystery vent on end was going to the Y-fitting on the canister. It is attached to a hard line to the firewall and then to a rubber line to the canister. On the rear end, it has a clip that holds it to the "tail" of the trans/case. There's a special tab on the transcase to hold it.

Mystery solved.

So, two rubber lines from the tank vent/rollover valves to the hard lines to the firewall and then rubber lines to the canister.

Now, I'll wrestle the coffin and fuel tank back in with less worry that something is going to vent fuel where it's not supposed to.
My Stable:
1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8, Auto, SelecTrac
1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 4.0L I6, Auto, Selectrac
And a few more....
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67GMC
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Re: Fuel Tank Straps

Post by 67GMC »

OK-When I said "wrestle with the coffin" I wasn't exaggerating. What a pain! Not Jeep's greatest design either. I did put the two straps on which hold the tank into the coffin but why they chose to make that so secure but didn't strap the coffin to the frame or to the underbody is beyond me. My 3 bolts that hold the flange of the coffin along the driver frame side were stripped out (I should've realized that was why the PO had tack welded it to the frame. I managed to get a nut on to two of the three of them from tiny gaps where I could slide in close to the bolt and a magnet to hold the nut. Without that, there wouldn't be any support on the driver's side. A nut strip would have been a good idea for this that could be slid out or some welded nuts on the frame instead of a threaded hole full of rust.

It looks like there's only one nut holding the passenger side though. I had an old set of straps from a different truck and was starting to think about how to rig something up but then I was able to get two nuts on the frame bolts so I called it there.

Bled the brakes. All seems good. Still have to put the new shocks on the rear and clear up the garage.

Glad I got lots of help on the forum two (especially the pictures).
My Stable:
1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer, 360 V8, Auto, SelecTrac
1987 Jeep Cherokee (XJ), 4.0L I6, Auto, Selectrac
And a few more....
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