84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

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devildog80
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Location: Apache Junction AZ

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Well........

Mongo228 and I replaced OEM - PO wiring for ICM with Painless Harness.....still no spark.

Diving into the distributor pick up coil, as this is the last thing not changed, but does test good?

Constant ohm's at 692 across outside terminals at the plug, but investigating further.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Mongo228 said to me part ways into the rewire yesterday....."If this does not work, we are dragging it out into the desert, and light it on fire" :/

Tried to encourage him to NOT do that.

Guess it is what you get, with these old trucks

It WILL live again!

Suspect the distributor might be our weak link now, after wiring and power feed has all been verified.

Just absolutely no spark through coil.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Also thinking of doing distributor recurve, while on the bench trouble shooting.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

A thought on fuel range in my FSJ



I read a lot about folks trying to get more range out of their FSJ's, by adding the "K-5 Blazer" 31 gl fuel tank between the frame, where the spare tire was designed to ride.



As it looks we need to run a second fill spout, and then to plumb the lines so it can draw from both tanks.



Idea.......



Add the second tank, instead of drawing directly out of that tank to run, what if I simply install an electric transfer pump in that second tank? And a fuel gauge of course!



When my primary tank gets low, I could hit the switch and transfer gas into my OEM tank?



Summit



Dorman 576-312 - Dorman Fuel Tanks
Fuel Tank, OEM Replacement, Steel, 31 Gallon, Chevy, GMC, Each

Part Number: RNB-576-312
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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CBJoe
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by CBJoe »

Heck...I'd just like to have the full range from my stock coffin tank :lol: I'm plagued by the early 2" fill tube / inadequate venting where I cant even fill my tank up past 3/4 full without it puking back out the cap.

I've considered exactly what you are talking about where the "aux" tank in the spare tire well is the fill tank...and a transfer pump moves fuel to the front tank.
1976 Cherokee Chief / Stock Q-Trac, Stock 360
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

I will need to experience the fill neck puking, as my rig still wheel chocked in the driveway, and probably won't get to drive to the gas station for a few months yet.

As I need to replace my fill hoses, perhaps I will do some research to see if I can remedy that issue?

Maybe switch the fill hose to the smaller one, and big one is the vent?

Will look into the issue, as both are side by side on the end of the plastic tank, but extend inside a few inches.

Vent might curve up to top of the tank on the inside?

Will look.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Another idea for spare tire space, if not for auxiliary fuel cell-

Thought of building a box for that same spare tire area, with a locking access door on top like the station wagons had for the spare.

The box would be for some stuff like this-

A second battery wired to the front one in series with grounding strip for rear lights etc
Air pump w/hose (possible retractable hose-maybe 1/4")
Generator
Tool storage
Extra parts
Etc.......
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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jpswapmohn
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by jpswapmohn »

Cool idea. I will be interested in how it turns out and how much space you buy.
One day I will wake up and realize that my jeep is complete...one day, I just know it.
88Wag, LT1/4L60E/NP242, J20 axles, etc. http://imgbox.com/g/rNuIasKYrS
95YJ, STaK, D44's, SOA, ARB's, Bilstein 5150s, 35" KM2's
50 CJ3A
77 J-10 (sold)
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Will see when it happens, as there are lots of little spaces on these trucks, and could be used for all kinds of storage.

Just dreaming out loud of possibilities :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Thinking about this, and found some info-

Overdrive unit available (for hiway OD only-which is what I want) bolts on back of the existing TC, requires a new rear only drive shaft, and turns the 727 3-speed into a 6-speed.

The bolt on unit electronically shifts in manual or auto shift mode with 1/2 gear increments, to the full gear shift of the auto trans.

So your 3-speed will shift like this
1 to 1-1/2 to 2 to 2-1/2 to 3 to 3-1/2

This is the site for Dodge 727 3-speed info
Dodge 3-Speed Auto - Gearvendors

Go here for more info-
info@gearvendors.com

Looks like the bolt on unit is right at $3200, then need shorter rear drive shaft, as unit is about 12" thick.

Best part about it, they have an exchange program so when you change vehicles, you get credit for exchange to different unit.

Units handle up to 1200 hp, then need hydraulic modification up to 2000 hp.

Looks promising....just need to find those money tree seeds and get that sucker growing

Honestly....would rather spend this kind of money for an O/D unit, rather than FI.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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CBJoe
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by CBJoe »

Gear vendors units are pricey, but solid. We've been considering one for a while on our 73 Firebird with a TH400. But in that car we have to modify the trans tunnel. I'd assume everything would clear easier on the jeep.

Sent from my Pixel 6 using Tapatalk

1976 Cherokee Chief / Stock Q-Trac, Stock 360
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

They do mention that on the site, as some tunnels are really tight, and need to "dimple" them just enough to fit.

I know I throw a lot of "thoughts" out here, and few actual build results, but thinking of years down the road where I would like to end up with everything.

Sharing it mostly to see if there are others out there that have already "been there - done that".

If you get one for the Firebird, let us know if you like it?

Thanks
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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CBJoe
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by CBJoe »

Gearvendors for firebird will be a long ways out....currently have a shop doing a full engine/trans rebuild on it. Should be sweet :) but too much $$ dropped already to justify an OD.
1976 Cherokee Chief / Stock Q-Trac, Stock 360
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Agreed, as they are kinda pricey!
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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jpswapmohn
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by jpswapmohn »

Interesting product, but wouldn't an adapter and 700R4 get you to a better OD with far less $$?
I am not sure I buy their numbers on the HP/Torque, but I am sure there is a way to look at intermittent gearing that indicates something that may legitimize the claim.

700R4 gears (3.06, 1.63, 1.0, 0.7) have larger deltas between the gears, which I guess could be momentum loss, but you are starting with a better 1st gear and ending with a bigger OD. The same arguments they make about the underdrive and overdirve benefits of the unit are relatively present in swapping the 700r4. Maybe the same for other preferred flavors (Dodge/Ford) of transmissions.

It is very likely I am missing something here. I see the unit being a benefit, just not sure it is a $3500 benefit. Racing and towing, I could see the intermittent gears being beneficial. Not sure about daily driving.

Now, if you want OD while keeping your classic as a numbers-matching, all original vehicle. I guess it makes sense (save the original rear shaft to swap back..but then you could save original trans and swap back as well..).

Just my thoughts after reading through some of their site.
One day I will wake up and realize that my jeep is complete...one day, I just know it.
88Wag, LT1/4L60E/NP242, J20 axles, etc. http://imgbox.com/g/rNuIasKYrS
95YJ, STaK, D44's, SOA, ARB's, Bilstein 5150s, 35" KM2's
50 CJ3A
77 J-10 (sold)
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

jpswapmohn,

I had similar take on their information, and similar conclusion as yours.....after feedback from other owners.

The price for a weekend warrior rig does not justify this O/D cost to me, any more than cost of FI does as I want the carb, but thinking the 1/2 shift on the gears was intriguing.

Looking everything over, and thanks for all who threw in on this discussion, I am going to get my rig running as is, then see if anything needs looked into after a few trips are put on the odometer.

Thanks so much, and keep them coming if you have more :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Temps are cooling down......just a little, but not enough to work out in it yet!

Closer to cool every day :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Still dreaming about great adventures, but still sitting.

Weather forcast shows the end of this next week, temps are supposed to finally drop out of the 100's with humidity getting back down to livable desert levels less than 20%, so work will heat up as temps drop down.

I'm soooo ready to drop that new to me distributor in (thanks - from another FSJ owner helping me out), get some dead dinosaurs in the carb bowls, and turn the key to see what happens.

Will report when back at it this next weekend :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Hey followers.......WE HAVE SPARK....WOOOHOOOO :)

Still a bit warm out, but put on the shop clothes, grabbed the water & smokes, and headed into the heat!

Checked the existing distributor again for ground and 'pick-up" for function, and all tested out good, but would not get spark from the coil....UGH!

So, had another FSJ owner send me a known good distributor he had spare.

Put it in right where the other one was......no spark....GGGGRRRRR!

Bought one of those little spark checker light thingies you put between the plug and wire........no spark!

Took the tool over to my CJ5, to test and make sure the tester worked.

Yep, works good.

Back to the Waggy, placed the tester....and one of my CJ buddies Mongo228 was helping, and decided he would hold onto the tester...on the insulated part no less, and says "Turn it over"!

I hit the switch and the engine took flight for about 3 seconds and died.

WOOHOO....we have spark :)

Little did I know, but Mongo228 had spark too!

Apparently when he was holding the tester, that spark came rushing through, and grounded through his arm as it went by. WOWSERS!

I climbed out of the cab and up to the engine, and he is standing there waving his arm around.

Thought he was near as excited as I was we had spark, and thought he was doing some dance or something, and I was trying to figure out where I needed to catch the beat so we didn't look completely foolish dancing in the driveway!

No....not dancing, he was trying to shake off the shock he just received,,,,,,but dammit we had spark :)

So to wrap up the day after dancing....we have spark, then found the existing MC2100 was leaking gas.

We figured it might not do so well, but we started with what we had, and got a few more 3-5 second runs out of it before diving into the carb change.

Mongo228 had a brand new MC2150 he had purchased for his CJ7, and found the fuel line connection to the carb was leaking fuel, so he called it in and was sent another complete carb and told to keep the original one.

He did a JB weld fix on it, so we threw it on and fixing rubber lines etc as we went, to make sure everything was good behind and around while we were there.

Carb on, then battery was low....UGH!

Put the cables to it, and still just not cranking like it should have.

Outside temps were getting up there, we were just running sweat, truck not cooperating so we called it a day.

But hey, WE HAVE SPARK....WOOHOO :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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Yeller
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by Yeller »

One step at a time. Progress is always a good motivator 😎
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909
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