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wimsurf wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 2:37 am i am running the same axle on my '84 wagoneer and was hoping for a posi lock cable. seems I'll need to hose clamp it together as suggested here.
I'll start with taking the diff cover off to see how that thing is actually working as I have not even taken a look (it worked flawlessly on vacuum when I pulled my drivetrain)

If working flawless, why not continue to use as designed?

Others would love to have the parts you are removing, so please save everything.

devildog80 wrote:

wimsurf wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 2:37 am i am running the same axle on my '84 wagoneer and was hoping for a posi lock cable. seems I'll need to hose clamp it together as suggested here.
I'll start with taking the diff cover off to see how that thing is actually working as I have not even taken a look (it worked flawlessly on vacuum when I pulled my drivetrain)

If working flawless, why not continue to use as designed?

Others would love to have the parts you are removing, so please save everything.

But they don’t always. Probably why they were only made for two years. As soon as I got home from Ouray '03, I locked mine in place as it nearly left me stranded in New Mexico in some loose sand. It wouldn't shift the front axle so it could never send the vacuum signal to the transfer case. It also wears out the diff carrier because the spider and axle gears are always spinning inside there. My carrier was trash, bought a used Trac-lock to replace it .


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Makes sense, and I will probably understand better when I can get my '84 GW out for testing.

Still new to me, and not running yet, so a ways to go before that day.

In the mean time, lots of reading and questions

Just lock it in permanently. Really simple to do. Basically makes it like the 81-82 and 85-91 style where the axle is always ready for the case to be moved to 4wd. All modern solid axle rigs have their axles set up this way as well.

devildog80 wrote: ↑Fri May 06, 2022 11:04 am
If working flawless, why not continue to use as designed?

Others would love to have the parts you are removing, so please save everything.

I'm removing it because I changed my entire drivetrain.
My transfer case was worn out, my engine was leaking harder than I could add oil, but it all was running fine.
I am now in the process of installing a 345 hemi, 8hp70 and a NP241C transfer case.
the front axle would be the only thing vacuum in the entire car so I want that cable actuated or permanent.

Resurrecting this thread as I'm thinking of the same thing. Having issues with the vacuum actuator on my 84 Grand Wagoneer. On a YJ I had, I put a plug on one of the vacuum disconnect lines so that the fork was always under vacuum (kept the axle halves together. Does any leave their front axles connected all the time? Is it hard on the front diff running connected? I thought I read this disconnect was to improve mileage but not sure if that's correct.

67GMC wrote: ↑Sun May 07, 2023 7:24 am Resurrecting this thread as I'm thinking of the same thing. Having issues with the vacuum actuator on my 84 Grand Wagoneer. On a YJ I had, I put a plug on one of the vacuum disconnect lines so that the fork was always under vacuum (kept the axle halves together. Does any leave their front axles connected all the time? Is it hard on the front diff running connected? I thought I read this disconnect was to improve mileage but not sure if that's correct.

You can do the same thing on yours; not an issue. We did on our XJ, too. The vacuum disconnect is setup so it's supposed to function like locking hubs that you don't have to get out and lock/unlock, to reduce wear on the front driveline and gears, which also improves mileage because there's less stuff spinning/adding rotating drag.

Personally I'd lock it in and throw a set of locking hubs on there--but you don't need to do the locking hubs if you don't feel like it/want to. Just like running a pt time case w/o locking hubs.

Yes mileage was the goal, along with wear and tare but the mileage gains were minimal and the axle was unique, so costs won out eventually lol. Shouldn’t pose any real issues as long as the driveshaft is in good shape and the pinion angle is correct. You can also modify the internal mechanism to hold it locked all the time. If the drag or additional parts spinning all the time is a concern lock out hubs can be installed as Sierra suggested.

https://www.warn.com/standard-locking-hub-9790

Mmm... wasn't the intent to provide locking hubs and full-time without the opportunity to ruin the full-time component?

Prior to 1974, locking hubs were an aftermarket product. Up till then, every Jeep was delivered with drive flanges on the front hubs. IMO the need for and utility of locking front hubs is greatly overestimated. I feel you would be hard-pressed to reliably measure a difference in fuel economy with the hubs in or out. It would take some time and lots of miles traveled, if possible. Kinda think changing conditions would dwarf any difference from the hubs.

There's no doubt that customers in the day perceived a need for hubs. By '74, seems like every Jeep got locking hubs at time of sale. Apparently Jeep decided to reserve the hub sale profit for the company in 1974, and put them on the option list, then made them standard.

Long-winded saying that the locking axle was more about perception than utility. Can't you put a Breeze clamp on the actuator and lock them permanently? JMO that's the best action if the Jeep has full-time.

Not on the XJ, since in 4 hi that one is locked front and rear. I realize the Wagoneers have a full time 4wd hi by then, but so do the '88+ for instance, and they don't have any disconnect or locking hubs or anything. I think the '87 is that way too, and the '86...not 100% sure when they quit doing the disconnect.

In the winter, hubs locked I get lower 13s, unlocked I'm pushing 14. Summer, hubs locked I still get lower 13s, unlocked I get 14 pretty easily, and have pulled 14-16. Being a daily driver, I'm putting on about 12-15k a year. If I left the hubs locked in, I'd be getting lower 13s constantly. We'll call it an average of .5 mpg difference, as I will have the hubs locked in sometimes in the winter and such. That .5 mpg right there equates to 40+ gallons, which is about two tanks, or about $150. A brand new set of locking hubs is about $75, so right there they paid for themselves twice. Additionally, I like the planet, and care about preserving it, so that's 40 fewer gallons of fuel emitted as CO2, just from one Jeep, in a year. If everybody could make that big a cut we'd be a lot better off.

Additionally my u joints last longer, and it's quieter, AND the steering feels much better going around parking lots and such. It drives like a true rear wheel drive car when the hubs are unlocked, which is nice, not having the front end binding and such when you're cranking the wheel.

Before anybody says "new trucks don't use them, so clearly they don't work", the new Super Duty Fords still have them optional, and it still makes a 2-3 mpg difference on them. A couple of my friends have them. The other companies quit doing it because people are lazy and expect the car to do everything for them now, all from the touch of their finger, and they shouldn't have to do any work.

Yes, the breeze clamp is the trick to lock the front axle shafts in. Like I said I'd recommend putting in locking hubs, but obv it's not my Jeep and a lot of people will tell you that they're a waste of time and money.

Thanks for the replies. For me, I like things to work as designed but $200+ for the vacuum motor is getting steep. I'm going to take it apart and see if I can free it up with a hand vacuum pump. For such a small gain in MPG seem like overkill but I'm thinking of doing the quick-fix lock for now and then locking hubs in the near future. I haven't research the locking hubs but don't you need a new half axle shaft or do people leave the CAD connected with a bolt and washers and then the locking hubs do the "unlocking". I'm not too familiar with the ins and outs on the front axle stuff (I'm not an off-roader by any means but we do get a lot of snow being right over the river from Buffalo, NY.
Any comments welcome.

Thanks

There's no reason to do anything other than just lock out the vacuum disconnect. The outer hub and everything is all the same; D44 locking hubs will slip in like they would on any other D44. No new shafts needed; you take out the gear that goes between the shaft and the hub, as well as the spring in there, and then the hub just slips in. There's a retaining ring that pops in to hold in the main piece of the locking hub. Then the outer piece just screws on with 6 #8-32x1.5" screws. I think it takes like a 1/8" alan wrench. Once you've locked the front end to always be engaged, it functions just like any other D44 front end.

If it were mine I'd be tempted to see if I could find an '88ish D44 driver's drop axle, to eliminate the disconnect parts altogether. That's just me though; there's nothing functionally wrong with locking the front end and leaving it.

Thanks Sierrablue-This sounds like a good idea. I have to change a hub seal anyway as i've got a fluid leak out the hub. I'll look at it when I take that apart.

No problem. Hopefully it makes some sense typing it out...one of those things that's way easier to just demonstrate than it is to try and explain it lol

The thing about manual hubs is, make sure you never put it in 4HI without locking the hubs or you will roast your viscous coupling in the transfer case. I pinned my coupling 20 years ago and did a write up on IFSJA about it, so that's not an issue for me.

Oh, yeah, forgot about that fun little feature. If you're worried about forgetting them, don't bother with it, but if a) you rarely/never use the 4x4 and/or b) are like me and always have a mental note of everything that's on/engaged or off/disengaged while you're driving it, then I'd say go for the hubs.

You could also get some of those automatic locking hubs, where you have to back up fast in 2wd and stop hard to disengage them. But they'd automatically lock should you forget you're in 4.

Wait - am I reading between the lines here and if I locked up my disconnect I could go to 4WD without stopping? Flipping my 4WD switch was a learning experience after my '87!

weeegoneeer wrote: ↑Thu May 11, 2023 9:55 pm Wait - am I reading between the lines here and if I locked up my disconnect I could go to 4WD without stopping? Flipping my 4WD switch was a learning experience after my '87!

Yes that is correct. With the disconnect locked the front output is spinning the same speed as the rear. Shift in and out of 4wd anytime the wheels are not spinning from loss of traction.

Lol that would be nice. Next you're gonna tell me that you're gonna eliminate the vacuum system altogether, and put in a cable!

For anyone looking for an actual delete kit that makes use of a one piece axle shaft Mitchell Differential makes one.