My ideas for a FSJ project

[I.P.F.]

Hello everyone. I will give a few lines about me first. I’m a retired heavy equipment mechanic in the pipeline industry. I go by the name of Bill And I have a addiction actually two. One is jeeps of all types. I currently own one Jeep. It’s a 06 unlimited with a rubicon d44s swapped and it is Jeep number 29. The very first Jeep I was ever around and the one I learned how to drive in was my fathers. It was a m715. And for most of you I need not say more. The addiction started. On to multiple CJs 5s and quite a few 7s and a few Comanches and cherokees, you get the idea.

Now onto what I’m going to build but first a little on my second addiction. The worst one of all, one that all consuming and can be life threatening! That’s right speed. It’s not my fault I had a bad example. My dad. He raced stock cars into his sixtys rode motorcycles ect. And had the idea that me and my brother could learn more about driving a car by spending time on a dirt track than half a lifetime of driving on the highway. So began a lifetime of addiction even when it tried to kill me twice. But now in my slightly advanced middle age I have finely learned to slow down. Because of that I have decided to build a truck that will serve my needs.

So I’m going to build a J truck and as of now I do not have. But I know where there is three that may or may not be fore sale. I will have a 4BT in it as I do have that. And a Gorend brothers built RE47 and a it will have D60s front and rear and more than likely a atlas t case. Now the stuff that will stir up some reactions. I am going to use a 4 link front and rear with bypass shocks and I would like to use convoluted air bags with ping tanks. Mostly for the really good ride. But may have to settle for coil overs. The truck will also have beard suspension seats. Now for the wild ideas. I want to find a truck body or two only and build my own frame. And I have a well equipped shop. And I’m going to take it even farther. I am going to shorten a 8’ bed one foot in the back and two foot in the front and move the rear axle back a foot. Then I will stretch the cab and build a extendacab cab out of it with a two rear doors. Suicide style. The whole idea of this is to build a truck that has all the space I need in the cab and a incredible ride. Plus great fuel economy even pulling a RV more on that latter. I would like to have a truck when I’m finished the will be tough, reliable, get good fuel economy and pull my Scamp 19 foot 5th wheel and do some limited off road and back country camping. I have worked in every state in the union over the years. But in my business you work a average of a 100+ hours a week. So I didn’t get muck chance to enjoy much but did find some amazing locations. So feel free to ask questions and give advice and poke fun at me thanks and let me know what ya think Bill

[Stuka]

Welcome to the forum.

Sounds like a cool project. Air bags can certainly work. Dave Chapelle (Dirt Every Day and Dirthead Shed) has used airbags on a bunch of his rigs and it has worked well. If you use a trailing arm in back with the airbag mid way on the arm you can get a lot of travel.

The J-truck frame is pretty good from the factory. I think just boxing the back half would be less work than fabbing a frame from scratch. Maybe a bit less rigid than a custom fabbed frame, but likely strong enough without having to also get all the cab and bed mounts to line up on a custom frame.

Looking forward to the build!

PS: I cleaned up the duplicate posts. Its an annoying forum issue, nothing you did.

[devildog80]

As that 5th wheel scamp does not weigh much, you will easily pull it with a build like you describe, as I pull a 16 ft Scamp now easily with my '07 Dakota w/3.7. Admittedly it does not do mountain grades at posted speeds, but we do get there and back, without overly taxing the truck.
As you have not put the project in motion YET, what is your completion goal to buy the truck, build the project, and have it driving?
Definitly following to watch this happen, as I think it would be bad a** for sure

[I.P.F.]

I’m glad ya like some of my ideas I need to explain a few things about my ideas. A convoluted air bag has a ring in the center and in affect it gives you more travel than you would get with a single. And a ping tank is to add volume to the whole thing so you get a slower pressure rise by stroke length. And I don’t know how much pressure rise rate will get me the ride I’m after. So my idea is to make two adjustable ping tanks. And once it’s built I will do one end at a time. Then when I know the volume that works best on one end I can build a tank for each side on the front and then move to the back and probably leave the adjustable tanks back there. And yes it will have limit straps and air bump stops. More latter

[I.P.F.]

The other advantage of doing a suspension like this is by putting a air leveling valve front and rear I can change my ride height very easy. So low for towing and droning on the highway. And higher for playing off road. Not that I intend to do a lot in the big trails. But ya never know. I read what I posted earlier and I don’t know if I explained the ping tank idea all that well. I’ll try it again for some of the guys that haven’t messed with suspense to much. The easy way to explain it is think of it this way if you have a air bag that has 12 inches of travel and it’s sitting still at 8” of travel with a load on it and without changing the pressure on it. You move it up 4” and have 4” of travel left. What you just did was double the pressure in the bag what if you found out that from testing you only need 2/3s of that. If you had a ping tank that was a third of the volume you would have a smoother ride. I have seen this used on class 8 trucks and motor homes to smooth out the ride. One other thing I would do is make shields for the bags pointing forwards to protect them. On other thing I haven’t mentioned is with a long travel air you really need a quick disconnect anti sway bar at least in the front. More latter Bill

[I.P.F.]

Devil dog I have always liked the Dakota trucks because the early ones had a 318 v8 option I thought for a mid sized pick up that gave really good performance. And loaded down ready to go my scamp weighs right at 3000lbs. And about 350lbs of kingpin weight. I still want to update the axle to a timbren and reinforce the frame a little but I don’t think you will see me winching it up a cliff or some other obstacles. As for start date and completion date there in is the rub. I still have projects in front of it that need to be finished first. But in the meantime I can get parts and a truck or two to get started. More latter Bill

[devildog80]

At 3000#, that is near feather weight for the capacity of the truck, and I would pull that with my Dakota. We talked about getting a Scamp 5th wheel, but retired now so want more single level "living space" for travel, mostly for wife's comfort.
My '84 GW I am building to tow a bigger camper, than the 16 ft Scamp we currently use, and the newer campers weigh is substantially less than older ones. Figuring I can tow a 28 ft bumper camper, as they tare weigh for most models around 4800#, and we travel light. So not a lot of added weight with our "stuff" thrown in, I figure we would be around 5200# at most, with full water tanks & gear. With the 401 engine/4 bbl, 727 trans, anti sway hitch, should putt right down the road.

[I.P.F.]

Devil dog I agree the grand wagoner is a very good tow vehical. But with a trailer that long I would put a equalizer hitch on and a anti sway bar for sure. On the car if you do this I would put a sniper type efi on it for two reasons. 1 you would get better fuel mileage both empty or with the trailer and it will make fuel adjustments for altitude and that will help. If you find in your travels you go into the mountains. 401s are fairly stout but like a lot of engines when changing altitude the will run better changing the timing retarded. Otherwise they can ping or preignight bad enough to shred the engine. Modern engines that adjust timing and fuel on their own have ruined us. When you get on the go button and it sounds like a diesel it don’t take long. But maybe your not headed to the mountains. But I thought I would mention it. I spent many years in Wyoming when it was booming building pipelines. And about the time you was done with a job anougher one would start. I started out with a 68 Ford F-350 with a mechanics bed on the back it had a XD 391 gas engine in it. I latter put a cobra jet 429 built up a bunch. Both of those engines were very touchy feely on timing at altitude. I didn’t get my first diesel truck until about 85. It was a 5 ton international. And I’m now on my 9th service truck. It’s a T300 kenworth with a ISC Cummins and it’s the first truck I’ve had with air ride. And I’ve kicked my own butt many times because I didn’t do it sooner. I hope this helps. Bill

[I.P.F.]

So one thing I forgot about my air ride design besides having good articulation. It has a added benefit in cross articulation when in a situation like that a leaf suspension will allow a tire to drop down but very little pressure down is on that tire. Within the limits of the suspension travel the air ride will put the same pressure down on all four tires. So traction should be the same on all four tires up until it reaches the limit of travel either up or down. I mentioned having a antiroll bar quick disconnect at the front only but I forgot to say that I would have a antiroll bar on the back too. The rear bar would be a lite duty bar that would keep the truck upright when the front disconnects were pulled. Otherwise it would lay over to one side or the other. I still have to do some experiments when I get the chassis finished. Stuka mentioned why I wouldn’t use a stock frame and box it in. And want build my own. Number one the frame I would have would be at least 50 years old work hardened and more than likely. Rust pocked. Two it will be stronger and more resistant to twisting. Three I have a frame table and the welder and tools to do it. Four I have the skills I have built many frames for hot rods, race cars, Jeeps, motorcycles and sand rails over the years. And yes the pivot points for lower arms front and rear will be inline with the u joints on the drive lines front and rear. The biggest advantage to that is very little in and out motion on the drive line slip joints going up and down. I think this will work very well no matter what you do with the truck thanks Bill

[Yeller]

Get to building, I’m ready to see it in process and then working

[I.P.F.]

That’s the idea, I just found out I can go look at the trucks I spoted this weekend I’ll let ya all know what I find out. Bill

[devildog80]

Devil dog I agree the grand wagoner is a very good tow vehical. But with a trailer that long I would put a equalizer hitch on and a anti sway bar for sure. On the car if you do this I would put a sniper type efi on it for two reasons. 1 you would get better fuel mileage both empty or with the trailer and it will make fuel adjustments for altitude and that will help. If you find in your travels you go into the mountains. 401s are fairly stout but like a lot of engines when changing altitude the will run better changing the timing retarded. Otherwise they can ping or preignight bad enough to shred the engine. Modern engines that adjust timing and fuel on their own have ruined us. When you get on the go button and it sounds like a diesel it don’t take long. But maybe your not headed to the mountains. But I thought I would mention it. I spent many years in Wyoming when it was booming building pipelines. And about the time you was done with a job anougher one would start. I started out with a 68 Ford F-350 with a mechanics bed on the back it had a XD 391 gas engine in it. I latter put a cobra jet 429 built up a bunch. Both of those engines were very touchy feely on timing at altitude. I didn’t get my first diesel truck until about 85. It was a 5 ton international. And I’m now on my 9th service truck. It’s a T300 kenworth with a ISC Cummins and it’s the first truck I’ve had with air ride. And I’ve kicked my own butt many times because I didn’t do it sooner. I hope this helps. Bill

Up into the mountains here is only about 5500 ft, so thinking I would be ok not needing to adjust timing? I can do that manually easy enough if/when needed, and keep the carburator, as I love the truck as it was built and few if any modern mods to it mechanically being done now.
I get the FI systems let our old trucks run and function like a newer vehicle, but for me its not to simply have the truck look like an old truck, I love to keep it as an old truck as much as I can. Takes away a lot of why I love them as they were built, when you slide into the cab and see all the gauges & digital stuff to show every nuiance of the engine running at peak performance, instead of simply driving and listening to the humming of everything working together as it should.
I understand a bit crazy to think this way, but thats the way I was raised I guess. Most of the trucks/tractors/equipment I grew up with rarely had so much as a temp gauge to look at. Many only had oil pressure gauge, and it was mounted on the engine. Many times just a shovel handle to dip the gas tank, and if it was not spitting fluid out of the radiator, it was running cool. We listened to the machine and were familiar with the sound of it when all was right, and when that sound changed, we knew something was wrong and fixed it.
And yes, the anti sway and load leveling hitch is a must for that much load.
Sure looking forward to your eventual build to start, as it sounds like you have the skills, to do it right.
Thanks so much for feedback

[I.P.F.]

Devil dog I fully understand what you mean about keeping it original. I’m with you a 100%. It’s just amazing to me how much CBC machining and electronics have improved cars and trucks. When I was a pup if you could get 50 to 60 thousand miles out of a truck you thought you were doing something. But now if you don’t get 300,000 or more you feel like you have a lemon. As to my truck I have to get a cab and a bed to work with, before I can build a chassis and I’m going to look at some this weekend so maybe I can find something to get started with. I’ll let ya know Bill

[I.P.F.]

Besides going and looking at donor trucks this weekend. I’m going to try and get up to the Yard in Wichita. It’s a surplus yard and pick up some aluminum 4” tube and some flat plate for end caps for my adjustable ping tanks. If I can find enough I may make 4 of them. Maybe if I get started on the bodywork or the ping tanks I’ll be able to start posting pics. I have a cat 3406E going together in the shop that had perforated liners. And when I get that done I have one more just like it that I may have to do a cylinder head on. And this is just part of what I gotta do. I may have to tear down a John Deere 9L in a sprayer because it is getting water in the crankcase. And it just had a water pump put on by John Deere. So it may have a broke head or a low liner hieght problem. I think I may have to do that before the second truck. We will see. Bill

[Yeller]

The Yard is awesome! I go there every few years and stock up on aluminum sheet and if they have it 2” 7075 round bar for control arm links.

Bill, approximately where are you located?
Steve

[I.P.F.]

Yeller I’m in Ponca Bill

[Yeller]

Yeller I’m in Ponca Bill

Cool, I'm in Claremore

[I.P.F.]

That would be a ride to wichita

[I.P.F.]

That would be a ride to wichita

[akguy09]

Devil dog I agree the grand wagoner is a very good tow vehical. But with a trailer that long I would put a equalizer hitch on and a anti sway bar for sure. On the car if you do this I would put a sniper type efi on it for two reasons. 1 you would get better fuel mileage both empty or with the trailer and it will make fuel adjustments for altitude and that will help. If you find in your travels you go into the mountains. 401s are fairly stout but like a lot of engines when changing altitude the will run better changing the timing retarded. Otherwise they can ping or preignight bad enough to shred the engine. Modern engines that adjust timing and fuel on their own have ruined us. When you get on the go button and it sounds like a diesel it don’t take long. But maybe your not headed to the mountains. But I thought I would mention it. I spent many years in Wyoming when it was booming building pipelines. And about the time you was done with a job anougher one would start. I started out with a 68 Ford F-350 with a mechanics bed on the back it had a XD 391 gas engine in it. I latter put a cobra jet 429 built up a bunch. Both of those engines were very touchy feely on timing at altitude. I didn’t get my first diesel truck until about 85. It was a 5 ton international. And I’m now on my 9th service truck. It’s a T300 kenworth with a ISC Cummins and it’s the first truck I’ve had with air ride. And I’ve kicked my own butt many times because I didn’t do it sooner. I hope this helps. Bill

Up into the mountains here is only about 5500 ft, so thinking I would be ok not needing to adjust timing? I can do that manually easy enough if/when needed, and keep the carburator, as I love the truck as it was built and few if any modern mods to it mechanically being done now.
I get the FI systems let our old trucks run and function like a newer vehicle, but for me its not to simply have the truck look like an old truck, I love to keep it as an old truck as much as I can. Takes away a lot of why I love them as they were built, when you slide into the cab and see all the gauges & digital stuff to show every nuiance of the engine running at peak performance, instead of simply driving and listening to the humming of everything working together as it should.
I understand a bit crazy to think this way, but thats the way I was raised I guess. Most of the trucks/tractors/equipment I grew up with rarely had so much as a temp gauge to look at. Many only had oil pressure gauge, and it was mounted on the engine. Many times just a shovel handle to dip the gas tank, and if it was not spitting fluid out of the radiator, it was running cool. We listened to the machine and were familiar with the sound of it when all was right, and when that sound changed, we knew something was wrong and fixed it.
And yes, the anti sway and load leveling hitch is a must for that much load.
Sure looking forward to your eventual build to start, as it sounds like you have the skills, to do it right.
Thanks so much for feedback

Actually at altitude you’ll want to increase your base timing