84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

[devildog80]

The key switch in the back did work, but has not for several months, so was using the dash switch.

Nothing changed from any other normal opening of the window, just will not go up now.

Dug into it deeper last night and have power all the way back to plug ins under rear bumper, but motor is just dead.

Safety switch tested and good, ground wires cleaned up, and nothing to note as unusual when looking through the glass with access panel removed.

Everything looks good....just will not work....UGH.

Back at it tonight again with some slender tools to try and get the motor to turn somehow, then run the gearing enough to drop the motor off of it to manually work the glass out of the way for repairs.

NOTE - Glass might need to be pulled from bottom track, then reinstalled.....but it looks cemented in there by PO and not looking forward to doing that if that is only solution.

[runuover86gw]

It is probably going to be your keyed tailgate switch. It is pretty common for the toggle portion of the switch to slip out of the housing, causing it to not operate properly. Sometimes this can cause the motor to fry due to it being stuck in one position. A lot of times, it just falls out of place enough to make it not function properly. A majority of the time it is caused by either the switch housing bowing apart, causing the toggle part to fall out enough to not function properly. Or one of the plastic nubs that are on both sides of the toggle part will break. I will try to take some pictures of both scenarios today so you can see what I am talking about. I keep broken parts in a stash in case people have issues, so I can explain the problem easier.

[devildog80]

I took the key control off the outside of the gate, and can see the toggle through the hole where key control mounted.

You can turn the mechanism and see the toggle is still in place, although very cruddy looking, but clean contact area on the toggle where mechanism touches it.

Many thanks for the pics, but biggest trouble would still be, I need to move the glass to get to the innards.

Dash switch was working the glass until this event, even with the rear key switch not working.

Hope it is a simpler fix than it looks like.

[runuover86gw]

Here are a few pictures of some of the issues with the keyed tailgate switch. Just for reference, some have the white colored toggle and others have the plastic chrome toggle. This first picture shows how the toggle can break or work its way out of the housing and get stuck. I am not holding this switch down and I don't have anything stuck in it. It is staying just like this by itself.

ktgs3 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

This picture shows how one of the two plastic pegs on the bottom of the plastic toggle can break off. The top one is a good one and the bottom one shows a broken one.

ktgs2 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

This picture shows how the housing can bow out just enough for the plastic toggle to pop out.

ktgs1 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

[devildog80]

Ok....

Mine does come back to center, and is not falling either way, so guessing it just needs cleaned up once I get in there.

Thanks

[runuover86gw]

Ok....

Mine does come back to center, and is not falling either way, so guessing it just needs cleaned up once I get in there.

Thanks

If that switch is fine and everything is working properly up to the molded plug under the cargo bed. Then it is more than likely either the motor has taken a dump or there is a break in the wiring or short somewhere. It is possible somebody spliced some wires together previously and didn't do the best of jobs and it has worked its way loose. I have seen that a number of times where the wires enter the tailgate from under the cargo bed. Occasionally I have seen the wires that enter the tailgate have issues with the insulation and owners or mechanics have improperly fixed it by not splicing the wires back together the best. If the wires are all good, the safety switch is good, keyed tailgate switch is good and if the motor is still good. Then you should be able to hook battery power to the molded plug under the cargo bed that heads into the tailgate. Hook the positive to the brown or tan and then the negative to the opposite brown or tan the positive isn't hooked up to. To reverse the direction of the motor, reverse the leads. Let me know if you have any questions or what I said doesn't make sense.

[devildog80]

It all makes sense, and I have 11.9 volts at the plug under the truck, and on dash switch connector leads.

I tried the hot wire from dash switch first on connector, then last night at plug ins under the truck.

Neither one does anything for the motor, so seems motor is the issue.

No chopped up wires anywhere along the path of tailgate wiring that I can see.

Only thing I did find is silicone grease inside the connectors. No doubt PO did to seal them better when rubber boots started to age out a bit, which those are still intact but rubber is weak.

All you point out I will go through, and if I already tried some of it, will look again to be sure I did it right.

I suspect the motor either failed or.....on Sunday I opened the back window full down, then went to parts store a few miles away.

Part of the drive was rough asphalt, so thinking the weight of the glass might have jammed the motor a bit.

So to test that theory we are trying to find something we can engage one of the exposed cogs on the motor gear, and get it to rotate just a smidge.

Thinking this would relieve the pressure off the motor, and set it back into normal tolerance and it will run.

If not, it really looks like the only way to get to anything is remove the glass from the track, and remove it completely, fix any issues, then re-install glass.

Thanks for pics and info, and I will report how it goes tonight.

[devildog80]

WOOHOO....glass is out!

Looked at all info, looked at the tailgate with glass stuck in down position.

Found that I was able to fish out the motor connector wires past the top lip between the glass and tailgate enough to unplug and clip on a couple hot wires.

18V battery from cordless drill and just touched contacts.....window jumped up about 4 inches. Yeeeessss....the motor is good. Whew!!!!

Went through steps to remove clips from track pins at bottom of glass, unplugged defroster wiring and glass slid right out.

Going through it and so far found I have power all the way back to the motor, but also found a ground that was just finger tight, so thinking this is most suspect to be at fault for it not working.

Going to tear into everything and fix it right while apart.

Have pics but not ready to upload just yet, so will post them later here.

​​​​​​​Thanks all for input as you helped save the day on this one

[runuover86gw]

If you are talking about the ground wires going to the ground stud in the tailgate. Those are for the rear window defogger and the license plate light. The ground for your year GW is through the wiring from the dash mounted switch. There isn't a ground for the tailgate motor in the tailgate itself. I just wanted to put that out there so you didn't become over-focused specifically on the ground wire in the tailgate.

If your motor is working fine then it is either your TG safety switch, keyed TG switch, dash mounted TG switch or the wiring somewhere. A wiring issue could be as simple as the connector to the safety switch or somewhere else came loose, damaged wire or something like that. If you need any assistance on testing each component using a meter, feel free to let me know.

[devildog80]

Ok....yes it was the small ground stud inside the tailgate. Was barely past finger tight.

Will track down the grounds through the system to be sure all is good.

Thinking the rough patch of asphalt road shook something loose, so just might be the ground in that system.

Speaking of tailgate switch....mine is metal (chromed) and mounted in what looks like cardboard.

The base is still ok, except a little wonky allowing the short switch pivot studs to kinda slip just a bit.

One in and one just out, but both will not stay in when switch is cycled.

Switch does not fall or fail, just not snug in its mount.

Not sure how I can secure that better to keep the cardboard firmed up against the sides of the switch pivots.

Will get a pic of it and post to show.

Thanks

[devildog80]

Here is a pic of the motor connector fished out, to access and get direct power to motor.

The connector with yellow wire coming out of tailgate is motor side, which I used 2 gator clip jumpers to connect on connector blades, then touched to power tool battery contacts.

Window was all the way down, and what you see is how far it moved with just a quick touch on the 18V power tool battery contacts.

The other to its left is connector to safety switch, and I used a scrap piece of red wire to hold it in place when unplugged from the motor side, so it would not drop back into tailgate.

Second pic you can see the yellow wire & motor connector through the glass, where I fished it out from.

20230613_173625 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230612_184742 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[devildog80]

Another pic of the motor connector "under glass".

Pic looks weird as I removed the window wipes off tailgate, and they are laying there just by the latch handle, but image taken looking towards front of truck.

20230612_184658 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[runuover86gw]

What did you use to check and see if the safety switch is working properly? It seems like you know what you are doing with the testing and getting things to work, so I am sure you know it needs to be plugged in and in the closed position for the system to work properly.

The ground for the tailgate window system comes out of the back of the dash mounted switch and that may be going to a splice under the dash or grounded to a screw by the DS fresh air vent. I am not sure what the cardboard piece is you are talking about. Did you have any picture or anything of that part that you are talking about?

[devildog80]

The safety switch I removed from the tailgate, then just a simple open/closed bench test for continuity. Have not checked wire from switch connector to motor connector yet. On the list for tonight to confirm that.

Cardboard looking piece is the actual switch body that the rear key switch is mounted in. I will get those pics tonight and post, so you know what shape it is in, and perhaps advise how to remedy the spread it has, which causes the switch itself to get a little wonky, but still functions.

[devildog80]

A few months back I did install a grounding strip in DS floorboard, so any grounds in question can be attached here.

20221127_142915 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[devildog80]

Here are a couple pics, but not of the actual housing I am calling cardboard looking!

The black plastic cap you see opens, then wires come off pins, then the whole plastic piece comes off the base.

20230613_184451 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230613_184209 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[runuover86gw]

That looks just like the switch should look. Sometimes if those wire terminals come a little loose, you can pull them out and loosely squeeze some needle nose to tighten the circle up over the pin. Just don't squeeze too tight. On the opposite side of that where the toggle part of the switch is, do you see anything wrong? If you move the toggle to the left and right, does it get hung up at all? I think I know what you may be talking about when you say cardboard looking. I am guessing you mean the brown switch housing that is a plastic like material with a bit of a texture.

The ground for the tailgate will be the black wire coming out of the back of the dash switch.

[devildog80]

Yep, that is what I am referring to on the switch housing texture.

And the switch does work, but housing is spread just a hair at the pivot pins, and what I was saying gets a little wonky when you cycle the switch. Does not really get hung up......yet!

That is what I will get pics of and post, then brainstorm to see how to resolve that issue, so switch stays in place better.

[runuover86gw]

I get what you are saying now also with the pivot pins. That last picture I posted with the housing bowing a little bit is the problem you are having. Over the years they have a tendency to bow out and that will do what yours is doing. The best way to fix that issue is to normally change the housing out with a good housing.

[devildog80]

Went through the switch last night, and my redneck shade tree mechanic mind came up with this solution.
Not sure how long it will hold, but took 40 years to get bowed where it is now, so hope this fix will last another 40 years!

I have some 3/4" steel banding strap off a pallet handy, so cut 2 pieces to length, gave them a little bow in the middle to put pressure right on the center pivot of the switch housing, and slid one in each side of the switch in its mounted position.

After "fixing", seemed to stay centered after fully installing back in the tailgate.

Not the greatest fix of all time, but might make it until I am done with it

20230614_172118 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_172142 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_172202 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_172650 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_172832 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_181841 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_181914 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_182025 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_182036 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_184312 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_184330 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_184640 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20230614_184853 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr