84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

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devildog80
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Location: Apache Junction AZ

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Sunday gapped the plugs down to 35 from the new to me MSD gap of around 50 that was in the truck when it came home last year.

When trying to get it running after sitting 18 years, we switched out the MSD and went back to OEM ECM.

Set timing yesterday and runs soooo much better.

Only issue, as with all V8 engines in the Jeeps is vac advance fitting on distributor so close the PS belt.

Had to trim off the outside rib on the little 90* rubber connector, so it was not rubbing on the belt when timing was set where it needed to be.

I see there is about the thickness of a bank card between the two :/

Is there a vac advance that has the metal tube coming off at 90*?

Have not come across one to date, but might end up modifying mine.

That is just too close, not enough room to offset a cog on timing either way, and already tried that.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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tgreese
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by tgreese »

Pretty sure there's no advance can available for the Duraspark of any kind. IME the reman places like Cardone are rebuilding what they have. Some NOS on eBay, maybe that's it.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

sierrablue
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by sierrablue »

I don't know of any modified vacuum advance cans there.

If you got a high output coil you could run .050 gapped plugs... :-bd

Glad it's running better though. That's always a good feeling.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Still have the MSD system that was on it, and someone gave me one of the GM style with coil in the cap.

Maybe look at those options, but it will bark the tires now, with just re-gap on plugs and setting timing.

HEI.....she would probably do more than bark.....but right now I am good with where it is while getting some more miles on it :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

sierrablue
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by sierrablue »

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/bl ... -150?pos=0

https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/bl ... +cap&pos=3

This stuff should get it burning a little hotter w/o any real modification to the ignition system 😛 Obv you'd need wires and a rotor too

If it'll bark the tires tho I'm not sure you need more grunt...
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
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devildog80
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Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:41 pm
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Yep, for now I will leave it as is, until I can make sure tranny & driveline are checked out completely, so I do not put too much too soon to those.

I know it will handle the little 16 ft Scamp camper we have right now, but will see what needs done when we get ready to go a little bigger.

Need a brake controller, trailer 7 way RV plug, etc along with lots of small details to finish before actually hooking up and go!

Biggest is for fall to get here sooner, as summer in AZ traveling without A/C, does not bode well with my wife since she had a double brain aneurysm in 2010.

Maybe A/C will be ready by this time next year.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Ok, took the waggy out today for a test run on the Interstate.

Been driving ok in town, but as I want to use this for traveling etc, wanted to see what it would do when runnin with the big toys.

Got up the on ramp like a shot and merged right into traffic at 70 mph & 2800 rpm.

Not bad, and that engine will do that 24/7 forever...

Planned only going to the next mile and getting off, but just up to speed so passed it by.

Settled into traffic with some room between me and vehicle ahead, then romped on that 2150.

No delay and nice smooth quick acceleration up to 80 mph.

Backed out of it and got off at next off ramp to head home.

Ran great, but some different smells that never smelled before.

Cruised home, popped the hood....oh yes I was able to adjust the Ace Hardware springs, so hood latches and unlatches with cable release now....and no weird smoke or stink at all.

Truck probably had to blow some gas going 80 mph after sitting for near two decades :/

Totally pleased with the little run :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Also....anyone know where to find video of electric seat base repair for these old waggies?

My switches work, but motors seem all gummed up.

Goes forward, but then struggles to go back....stuff like that.

Took the PS seat out, pulled the electric base off, now how deep can I go to pull this apart and get the motors and tracks limbered up?

Looked on YT but nothing for older vehicles like these.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

sierrablue
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN/CO

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by sierrablue »

Sounds like it's got some torque...as the 401 should ;)

No idea on the seats, sorry.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.

Srdayflyer
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Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:08 pm

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by Srdayflyer »

i believe 79 was the last year for the 401's
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HeavyMetalThunder_81
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by HeavyMetalThunder_81 »

Srdayflyer wrote: Fri Jun 02, 2023 9:07 pm i believe 79 was the last year for the 401's
'78 was the last year for the 401
-Jonny B.
1979 Cherokee Golden Eagle - UNDER CONSTRUCTION
7" lift, 35x12.5x15
AMC 401 - Pro-FLo 4 FI
NV4500/NWFBB/NP205 - Triple Stick'd
F D44 - 4.10, Eaton E-Locker
R M23 - 4.10, Detroit Locker

1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
1979 Cherokee Chief - Parts
1979 Wagoneer - Sold
1981 Cherokee Chief - Cubed
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tgreese
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by tgreese »

devildog80 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:28 pm ... how deep can I go to pull this apart and get the motors and tracks limbered up? ...
Section 3M in the '82 TSM shows the power seat assembly and its servicing. Likely there is similar coverage in your '84 TSM.

Also covered in 8R of the '89 TSM - looks substantially the same. Likely you could use either year as a reference.

In the day, each motor would have been removed as a unit and replaced if defective. There are also horizontal and vertical transmission assemblies which are not serviceable. I think you'll have to wing it if you want to take the motors or transmissions apart and clean them.

Regarding YouTube coverage, very unlikely there will be coverage of an unusual/non-essential part like seat adjusters for an oddball vehicle like a Jeep. If you want general background, you could study a few such videos for American cars. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=el ... ild+repair

Likely all you can do is take the motors apart, clean and lube. When you assemble, there should be a way to hold the brushes back so the armature can go in. Something you'll have to figure out - don't force it. Maybe you can replace the brushes. There may be an automotive electrics shop near you that can overhaul your motors, if that's the problem. Realize that motors can fail because the field or armature windings go open. Typically that's not repairable.

Suggest you run the diagnostics in your TSM before you take anything apart.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

Srdayflyer
Posts: 398
Joined: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:08 pm

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by Srdayflyer »

i got rid of all my dura spark ignition,just had too many issues, installed holly hyperspark system w/holly efi so much better, had the carb rebuilt, butterfly shafts were worn out and re bushed, but it still ran crappy,if you want a spare duraspark set up to carry with you, you can have mine, i gutted the complete wiring associated with it, they have been known to leave lots of people stranded

runuover86gw
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by runuover86gw »

devildog80 wrote: Sun May 28, 2023 7:28 pm Also....anyone know where to find video of electric seat base repair for these old waggies?

My switches work, but motors seem all gummed up.

Goes forward, but then struggles to go back....stuff like that.

Took the PS seat out, pulled the electric base off, now how deep can I go to pull this apart and get the motors and tracks limbered up?

Looked on YT but nothing for older vehicles like these.
Sorry, just read this. I haven't had much time to read through the build threads like I used to, so now I try to read through them about once a month to catch up on everything from everyone. If you still have any questions on the power seats, feel free to let me know. I have a couple of the bases completely torn down and I am working on fine tuning my process and acquire all of the parts I will need for this. I am looking to add it as a service I provide with my countless other services. I just need to make my process more efficient before I can do that.

I will try to take some pictures of one that I haven't cleaned up yet and one that I have completely torn down and cleaned up. The seat motors are actually serviceable, but you are probably going to want to have some electrical/mechanical skill-sets to do so. All three functions are all in the same housing. The housing that you see under the seat with the three cables going to it has three armatures and six carbon brushes. I have taken a few of these apart now and the first couple I took apart were able to be cleaned up relatively easy. Then the last couple that I took apart that had known issues had some burned up windings and a couple of the lead wires had melted causing catastrophic damage. In every one I took apart, the gears housed inside of the plastic housings had very old and hardened grease inside of them which is pretty much useless at this point.

Another area of concern if you haven't cleaned it yet are the power seat switches. There are some plastic pieces inside of it for the toggle portion of the switch that can break sometimes causing issues. There is also typically a lot of oxidation and arcing that can happen in there due to the oxidation that needs to be cleaned up and inspected. That is a quick summary of some of the issues, but I could go much longer in detail.
Josh's Classic Custom Auto Electronics LLC, Owner/Founder
https://www.facebook.com/JoshsFSJRelayKits
1986 GW 360/NP229/TF727/Dana 44's
1986 Comanche
1979 Wagoneer Limited 360/Quadra-Trac/Turbo 400/Dana 44's
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

I pulled the PS out, greased the cables, light machine oil on the tracks & running gear, and got it working.

Pulling the DS tonight to do the same, so looks like mine work, just needed some help after sitting so many years.

Motors and switches ok, just seems the steel base really dry.

Might tear into them deeper later, to refresh the gearbox grease etc.

Just needed basic function for now.

Thanks all for feedback.

When I work the DS, maybe this old dog can do some video and post to YT, so someone else has some baseline info.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

The 401 was in the truck when I got it, with paperwork showing rebuild right before the truck was parked back in 2004.

PO said only 2500 miles on it so far.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

runuover86gw
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by runuover86gw »

Glad to hear you got it going. I took some pictures of one of the motors and gear assemblies I am taking apart right now. This will give you an idea of what the grease and everything can look like after being in there for 30-40 years. I didn't take any pictures of the rails because those are pretty obvious. These are all pre-cleaning pictures.

Imagepsm11 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

Imagepsm10 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

Imagepsm9 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

Imagepsm8 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

Imagepsm7 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

Imagepsm6 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

Imagepsm5 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

Imagepsm4 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

Imagepsm3 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

Imagepsm2 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr

Imagepsm1 by Joshua Oman, on Flickr
Josh's Classic Custom Auto Electronics LLC, Owner/Founder
https://www.facebook.com/JoshsFSJRelayKits
1986 GW 360/NP229/TF727/Dana 44's
1986 Comanche
1979 Wagoneer Limited 360/Quadra-Trac/Turbo 400/Dana 44's
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

Those pics are absolute gold right there!

Really not much to these little gear drives, and that will be my future task to open mine up like this, and get them cleaned up better than just "working for now".

Thank you so much :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 »

So.....tailgate team......was working on/driving my '84 GW yesterday, and when done for the day wanted to close the back glass and......both switches un-responsive.

Glass went down fine in the morning, but evening....now will not go back up.

Checked relays on fuse panel.....both are good.

Un-plugged connector off back of dash switch and tried to hot wire across terminals with a jumper wire. Nothing.

I have 11.5 volts on red wire on connector and schematic shows light brown "UP" and dark brown "DOWN".

Checked safety switch and it is in correct position outside on the arm, but with glass down and in the tailgate, unable to reach it inside to trouble shoot.

After work today heading down under the truck to see if I can track the wiring and find a spot I can tap into to test.

Oh yes.....I was working on the DS electric seat base, which are on the same relays on the fuse panel, and seats work fine.

When I pull the relays, the seats do not work, which is expected and confirms relays are good.....to me!

Please advise if anyone has some tricks to get my glass working again.

​​​​​​​Thanks
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

sierrablue
Posts: 1208
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:02 pm
Location: MN/CO

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by sierrablue »

Any chance that you twisted the key enough to pull it out but the motor still had power, and it burned the motor out? My dad knew it could happen and one time with my mom she did that and it burned out the motor on the '88. That was when we went to the crank window setup in the back on it.

Not saying 100% that's your problem but it sounds like that could be it.
'71 Wagoneer (DD)
-B350 (HEI, iron 4-barrel, Edelbrock 1406), TH400, D20
-'74 D44 front (nonpower discs)
-custom headliner
-Front shoulder belts (rears eventually)

viewtopic.php?t=23070

There are 2 major differences between new Wranglers and FSJs. FSJs are meant to be both utilitarian and capable, not just capable. FSJs are also rarely initially recognized as Jeeps by the average American.
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