Rant

Area for post regarding Jeeps other than an FSJ. This area may contain technical post regarding those vehicles as well.

5jeepsaz
Posts: 26
Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2021 10:07 am

Re: Rant

Post by 5jeepsaz » Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:49 pm

Glad to read all about it. Agree all. My thoughts : don't judge, to each his own, necessity is mother of intervention, and keep it stock & traditional. I'm glad to read because being a resto guy these thoughts float around old every vehicle I see and attach to my head automatically: "WTF is that? Why? And then, huh, I wonder if that works? Cool..." so I have no idea but agree it is worth the rant.

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backroadin'
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Location: Vermont

Re: Rant

Post by backroadin' » Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:50 pm

What bugs me is when some kid or credit card cowboy takes a nice FSJ or any old uncommon rig for that matter and chops it all up and tube frames it and boatsides it and what have you, then wheels it for a summer or two and sends it down the road. How cool is it really if when you "build" a cool old rig to the point that the grill is the only remaining original part?
As far as the engine thing, I guess some folks lack the patience or ingenuity to deal with uncommon engines. Or, they're young (with all due respect) and don't have any nostalgic connection to the old stuff - only what they're familiar with when they got interested in cars.

Man, I think I'd like drinking in your garage.......... :)
'73 Wagoneer 4.0 stroker/t176/d300, offy dualport w/ quadrajet

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Phils67
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Re: Rant

Post by Phils67 » Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:41 pm

Agreed
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.

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Phils67
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Re: Rant

Post by Phils67 » Sun Jan 02, 2022 9:55 pm

Agreed haha come have a few in my shop any day if you're in NY lol. But realistically I look at it this way. Some poor bast*rd 40 or 50 years ago probably got up every day and went to work in Toledo Ohio, kissed his nagging wife goodbye, probably eas happy he didn't have to hear his hippy kids BS, threw a lunch box into his old pickup and went to work to do some repetitive hand build he did daily for years to make these things, way before computers and robots did. We should respect that. I saw employee badges from back in the day from the toledo plant on ebay once. That humbled me to think about it. It isn't about engine swaps really or modifications, god knows I've done plenty. It's about respecting and appreciating these things are for what they are. .
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.


AccrateDelivery
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:27 am

Re: Rant

Post by AccrateDelivery » Wed Jan 05, 2022 11:59 am

Phils67 wrote:
Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:08 pm
Just sitting here in my shop having a few adult beverages and wanted to state that yes I understand people have the free will to choose how they build their rigs, this isn't a personal shot being fired off at anyone nor is it my choice to decide what is fitting for someone's individual needs, but when you have a perfectly good rebuildable driveline why not keep it stock or upgrade it to something "Jeep" would have approved of? Like when I see people with 20s ford's drop an LS or SBC I want to puke. And I'm no ford guy at all, but why not run a a 302 or 351 or even a coyote engine? Keep it ford man. Same goes for jeeps to me. Idk, it aggravates me seeing guys drop all these off brand weird engine swaps. I swapped 232 to a 4.0L, I kept it an I6 and in Jeep lineage. When I did mine I was young and green, but now I know better and appreciate my rig more than I did 29 years ago or even 10 years ago. Like guys that want to yank a 327 vigilante for a SBC. Really? Yeah you may get a little more power but that is a cool old engine. Sure, parts aren't as readily available but that's what makes it cool as well. Idk, i'm looking at my rig as we speak and wishing I restored it to stock. I dont regret my decision, but I'm at least happy I didn't listen to some hack I worked with that told me to drop in a 350 a decade ago. It aggravates me when people can't just appreciate what they have. That's all. Hope I don't get banned for this one. I feel like so many of these are being basterdized, again, I'm no one to talk because I'm well beyond OEM, but if I could do it over I'd be rocking a rebuilt 232 in a stock spruce tip green 67 on the daily. Maybe I have too much time to think tonight. To each their own I guess. I hate seeing OE engines scrapped that are in good working order or rebuildable though. Some poor b***ard in Toledo drove to work every day to assemble that thing and guys just junk it. They weren't built by robots like everything nowadays. Some guy busted his ass, hated his job probably, and went home aggravated nightly just to realize years later his hard work and labor would wind up at a scrap yard. Eh, its what it is, my two cents tonight, whatever, judge me.
-end rant.
Phils67,
I agree with you. If you wanted a dodge ram frame and driveline UNDER the skin of a classic Wagoneer or Chief ... that's called a Restomod or even 'FrankenTruck'. Everything goes out the window and no holds barred. People aren't gonna like this ... but those that do this are basically 'fakin it'. I also prefer to preserve the character and personality of my classic Jeep by keeping it JEEP ... and working with what God gave me from the Jeep factory. lol
There are a TON of old Jeep owners who the first thing they do is GUT the thing front to back ... install MODERN computer controlled driveline, luxury conveniences, electronics, hydro boost head scratchers, satellite dishes, reclining ass warmers, etc., etc., etc. GREAT!! That's what makes you happy ... do it ... but it ain't a 72 or a 79 or a 81 ANYTHING anymore. It's YOUR creation.

There's a VALUE to Classic. It is lost when it is basterdized.

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Phils67
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Re: Rant

Post by Phils67 » Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:52 pm

I don't mind mods. I've done plenty of them myself. Keep it tasteful and within its heritage/lineage is all I was saying really.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.


SJTD
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Re: Rant

Post by SJTD » Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:53 pm

"Faking it"? Faking what?

Some like the vehicle but not the archaic drive train, climate control, seats, etc.

So does "keeping it in the family" allow a 455 in any Wag? Or only years that had the Buick 350?
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.


AccrateDelivery
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Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:27 am

Re: Rant

Post by AccrateDelivery » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:04 am

Phils67 wrote:
Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:52 pm
I don't mind mods. I've done plenty of them myself. Keep it tasteful and within its heritage/lineage is all I was saying really.
Agreed. Darn good point.


AccrateDelivery
Posts: 25
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Re: Rant

Post by AccrateDelivery » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:09 am

backroadin' wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:50 pm
What bugs me is when some kid or credit card cowboy takes a nice FSJ or any old uncommon rig for that matter and chops it all up and tube frames it and boatsides it and what have you, then wheels it for a summer or two and sends it down the road. How cool is it really if when you "build" a cool old rig to the point that the grill is the only remaining original part?
As far as the engine thing, I guess some folks lack the patience or ingenuity to deal with uncommon engines. Or, they're young (with all due respect) and don't have any nostalgic connection to the old stuff - only what they're familiar with when they got interested in cars.

Man, I think I'd like drinking in your garage.......... :)
Darn good points.

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Yeller
Posts: 527
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Location: Rogers County Oklahoma

Re: Rant

Post by Yeller » Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:50 am

I have a huge appreciation for original. I do believe it has its place and have all the respect in the world for those that do that, preserve the history and a lot of that stuff is just down right cool and interesting. But its just not for me, I work really hard to preserve the spirit of the old but don't want to live without electricity and running water so to speak. by using modern drive trains, if properly done, you get modern dependability. If you just get in it and go it gets more use. If it doesn't get used it doesn't get preserved unless it is in a museum, but then it doesn't get used, there can only be so many museum pieces. If keeping it in the lines of originality entices you to use and enjoy the vehicle I'm all for it but if it doesn't put modern drive train in it and use it unless it is something truly special that is historically significant. If it is find that guy that is a curator of history (one that actually does it and not just just collect it for "someday") to preserve it, historically significant items deserve preservation.

Don't get me started on credit card cowboys..... watch that everyday in my other passion of early bronco's. Guy buys a beautifully done restoration for $80k. Gets it home and decides its old and clunky to drive. Spends $150k "modernizing it" gets board or finds that his builder sucks and still doesn't like it and sells it for $85k. It saddens me deeply.

I do also believe in the words of my car building mentor of my youth, he had this painted on the wall in his office. "Anyone can do a restoration, there are mountains of books on that. It takes a courage and vision to take a perfectly good automobile and cut it up into something unique and beautiful". He has a few Ridler awards to back that statement up so there is something to that.
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909


SJTD
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Re: Rant

Post by SJTD » Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:34 am

Well, I'll agree it's sad when a guy rerestores a classic to his taste. Why not do it to a beater and there'd be two restored vehicles?
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.


AccrateDelivery
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2021 7:27 am

Re: Rant

Post by AccrateDelivery » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:50 am

SJTD wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:34 am
Well, I'll agree it's sad when a guy rerestores a classic to his taste. Why not do it to a beater and there'd be two restored vehicles?
Good point.

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Phils67
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Re: Rant

Post by Phils67 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:22 pm

backroadin' wrote:
Sun Jan 02, 2022 8:50 pm
What bugs me is when some kid or credit card cowboy takes a nice FSJ or any old uncommon rig for that matter and chops it all up and tube frames it and boatsides it and what have you, then wheels it for a summer or two and sends it down the road. How cool is it really if when you "build" a cool old rig to the point that the grill is the only remaining original part?
As far as the engine thing, I guess some folks lack the patience or ingenuity to deal with uncommon engines. Or, they're young (with all due respect) and don't have any nostalgic connection to the old stuff - only what they're familiar with when they got interested in cars.

Man, I think I'd like drinking in your garage.......... :)
Haha, depending on what part of Vermont youre in you may not be that far from me, come have a few cold ones in the shop anytime if you're ever down this way. I'm only just south of Albany NY
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.

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Phils67
Posts: 990
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Re: Rant

Post by Phils67 » Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:31 pm

Yeller wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:50 am
I have a huge appreciation for original. I do believe it has its place and have all the respect in the world for those that do that, preserve the history and a lot of that stuff is just down right cool and interesting. But its just not for me, I work really hard to preserve the spirit of the old but don't want to live without electricity and running water so to speak. by using modern drive trains, if properly done, you get modern dependability. If you just get in it and go it gets more use. If it doesn't get used it doesn't get preserved unless it is in a museum, but then it doesn't get used, there can only be so many museum pieces. If keeping it in the lines of originality entices you to use and enjoy the vehicle I'm all for it but if it doesn't put modern drive train in it and use it unless it is something truly special that is historically significant. If it is find that guy that is a curator of history (one that actually does it and not just just collect it for "someday") to preserve it, historically significant items deserve preservation.

Don't get me started on credit card cowboys..... watch that everyday in my other passion of early bronco's. Guy buys a beautifully done restoration for $80k. Gets it home and decides its old and clunky to drive. Spends $150k "modernizing it" gets board or finds that his builder sucks and still doesn't like it and sells it for $85k. It saddens me deeply.

I do also believe in the words of my car building mentor of my youth, he had this painted on the wall in his office. "Anyone can do a restoration, there are mountains of books on that. It takes a courage and vision to take a perfectly good automobile and cut it up into something unique and beautiful". He has a few Ridler awards to back that statement up so there is something to that.

I dont mind resto-mods so much as I hate people that hack perfectly good classics into monstrosities. My truck is in its own right, a semi-resto-mod, but maintains alot of originality. Sure if you open my hood you'll see a 4.0, but it looks in place. It doesn't say chevrolet or corvette on a big plastic engine cover for example. Adding a few creature comforts doesn't really bother me either, God knows these early ones especially lacked comfort of any kind. But they were built to be utilitarian. Newer trucks are built to be more car-like and designed to haul car seats and groceries more than lumber or stone. Next time you're at the hardware store watch some idiot scratch his head with a dozen sheets of plywood trying to figure out how to put it in his 5 foot bed.
I am a fan of lineage and originality and regret my youthful decisions so now I slowly correct them. Not everything, but alot. If there were 2 chevelles at a car show side by side, one was an original 396SS with crappy patina and the other was fully restored with a LS engine and lowered with big bro wheels, I'd choose the original. To each their own.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.

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Yeller
Posts: 527
Joined: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:54 am
Location: Rogers County Oklahoma

Re: Rant

Post by Yeller » Fri Jan 07, 2022 4:50 pm

I personally like patina. I wish my truck was original fadded paint but it’s not, but was a complete running truck in excellent shape.

This was my daily driver until a friend offered well more than my asking price in a way that was really hard to say no to. Don’t shoot me it wasn’t a FSJ lol. It got a 5.3, a/c but kept the original 4 speed
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The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909

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backroadin'
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:13 pm
Location: Vermont

Re: Rant

Post by backroadin' » Sun Jan 09, 2022 8:00 am

Yeller wrote:
Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:50 am
If keeping it in the lines of originality entices you to use and enjoy the vehicle I'm all for it but if it doesn't put modern drive train in it and use it unless it is something truly special that is historically significant. If it is find that guy that is a curator of history (one that actually does it and not just just collect it for "someday") to preserve it, historically significant items deserve preservation.
Yup, I'm all for driving my stuff, and seeing rigs be driven/used. It's hard to see a guy with a whole yard full of old rigs that he's keeping for "someday". That someday usually ends up with most of it going to the junkyard or parted out when he passes. BTW, that's a cool truck - I'd be proud to drive that every day!!
Phils67 wrote:
Fri Jan 07, 2022 3:22 pm
Haha, depending on what part of Vermont youre in you may not be that far from me, come have a few cold ones in the shop anytime if you're ever down this way. I'm only just south of Albany NY
Well, pretty much all of VT is close to Albany, LOL! Im near Montpelier, so just a few hours. Might have to take the ol jeep on a road trip this summer.
'73 Wagoneer 4.0 stroker/t176/d300, offy dualport w/ quadrajet


gte636p
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon May 09, 2022 6:37 pm
Location: Eastern NC

Re: Rant

Post by gte636p » Tue Aug 02, 2022 6:44 pm

In terms of Jeep though... even jeep swapped different equipment through the years. I saw the buick 350 comment, but what about the 225/231's in CJs or the good ole GM 2.8L v6 Cherokees? It's hard to stay "jeep" stock when they weren't even stock when they left the factory.

That saying, I'd never replace my L-heads for F-heads or put a 2.8 where an iron duke could go. But, the Wagoneer is definitely getting a 5.3 unless a miracle happens and the 5.7 becomes easy to swap.
Just a few jeeps ranging from '41 to '18.


Johnzi10
Posts: 211
Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:43 pm
Location: Northern Kentucky

Re: Rant

Post by Johnzi10 » Tue Aug 02, 2022 9:55 pm

My take is that the rig you start with, along with your planned usage are the guidelines. I agree that chopping a stock survivor to be a trail /mud rig seems like a waste, considering how rare they can be that arenot big $$$$. Of course I’m sure someone could make a great rig, but most don’t.
I have a 92k miles 89 that was owned by a Toledo assembly plant worker! Pretty much all there. Can’t bring myself to change too much, relays, holly retrobright have been done. Thinking EFI, but won’t unless carb is too much hassle for my “weekend “ vehicle. 2” lift is a definite possibility.
I’m not restoring a show car, just want my Jeep to be the fun vehicle that it is. I know I’m prejudiced towards OEM as I’m a Jeep dealer. Got Jeep in late 90 and had a chance to order final edition and I passed.(who would pay 30 k in 91 for a 12mph v8?). I had no previous experience selling Jeep. Sold the hell out of black Xj limiteds with gold stripes and wheels! After selling thousands of SUV’s I suddenly appreciated where it all started.my take, this is America, we can do what we’re called to do!
2020 Cherokee Limited v6. Wife’s Jeep
2002 Grand Cherokee Laredo Daughters Jeep
1998 XJ Cherokee “the Ghost”
1989 Grand Wagoneer my Covid mental health medicine

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ProTouring442
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Re: Rant

Post by ProTouring442 » Thu Aug 04, 2022 2:35 pm

Image

I swapped to an LY5/4L60E because that's the engine I wanted to power my Jeep. I'll be installing an NP242 and picked the axles because that's the transfer case and axles I want to use in my Jeep. The interior will be modified to be the way I want it in my Jeep, HVAC system, paint color, etc, will al be to my taste for my Jeep.

Whether a stock restoration, a totally modified off-roader, or a picture perfect mall-crawler, they're all built to the taste and abilities of the individual owner.

If you want to be a purist, buy a Ferrari. Those guys get irritated when someone uses the wrong bolt for something.
You ever wonder what medieval cook looked at the guts of a pig and thought, "I bet if you washed out that poop tube, you could stuff it with meat and eat it."

http://www.facebook.com/william.k.elliott.7

http://www.WilliamKElliott.com

My LY5/4L60E swap: http://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtop ... =12&t=1850


SJTD
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Location: Lompoc, Sunland or somewhere between

Re: Rant

Post by SJTD » Fri Aug 05, 2022 3:47 pm

Harrumph!
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

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