Broke rear axle at Glacier National Park

[devildog80]

Why would the NP219 or 229 not work with just the front axle in this situation?

Relaying info over to the Jeep Forum, as CJ's use the AMC 20 as well.

The CJ M20 is an entirely different axle. The R&P/Carrier are the same, everything else is different.

FSJ's use the M23.

If you by chance have an NP219 or 229, the following setup will sadly not work. But if you have a 208 (locking hubs), you can drive it in front wheel drive. I have literally driven hundreds of miles doing this.

EDIT: I know thats different than thousands. But, full time systems in these always powered the front axle with no differences. Just depends how much that trailer weighs I suppose.

[Stuka]

Why would the NP219 or 229 not work with just the front axle in this situation?

Relaying info over to the Jeep Forum, as CJ's use the AMC 20 as well.

The CJ M20 is an entirely different axle. The R&P/Carrier are the same, everything else is different.

FSJ's use the M23.

If you by chance have an NP219 or 229, the following setup will sadly not work. But if you have a 208 (locking hubs), you can drive it in front wheel drive. I have literally driven hundreds of miles doing this.

EDIT: I know thats different than thousands. But, full time systems in these always powered the front axle with no differences. Just depends how much that trailer weighs I suppose.

There is no 4wd high range for the 229. High range is all wheel drive, and uses the viscous coupler. It REQUIRES both drive shafts to be hooked up to operate.

EDIT: I think the 219 does have a high range lock, but cant recall off hand.

[letank]

Sorry to read that...

it is a 208 as per the OP, see #9 or #10 , no posting #

[dodgerammit]

Why would the NP219 or 229 not work with just the front axle in this situation?

The CJ M20 is an entirely different axle. The R&P/Carrier are the same, everything else is different.

FSJ's use the M23.

If you by chance have an NP219 or 229, the following setup will sadly not work. But if you have a 208 (locking hubs), you can drive it in front wheel drive. I have literally driven hundreds of miles doing this.

EDIT: I know thats different than thousands. But, full time systems in these always powered the front axle with no differences. Just depends how much that trailer weighs I suppose.

There is no 4wd high range for the 229. High range is all wheel drive, and uses the viscous coupler. It REQUIRES both drive shafts to be hooked up to operate.

EDIT: I think the 219 does have a high range lock, but cant recall off hand.

Yep, real quick way to frag a 229 or any version of the viscous style cases.
Given the age of these cases now, probably talking destroyed within a few yards of movement.
And no replacement couplings available anymore. When they were available a few years ago, they were $1200. That's why mine now has a 242 case

But the 208 in my Dodge I also have used in fwd mode only.
Like the OP, I wouldn't want to drive thousands of miles like that. A hundred, probably. Dunno about towing like that. Depended on how desperate I was.

I think OP made a good call to drive it to a storage locker and come back for it.

[devildog80]

Ok, I know what I am going to save my bigger money for now, to replace the NP229.

I want that option, to pull myself off the road/trail if need be, rather than hard down and getting towed.

Thanks for clarification

[chevelleguy]

Ok, I know what I am going to save my bigger money for now, to replace the NP229.

I want that option, to pull myself off the road/trail if need be, rather than hard down and getting towed.

Thanks for clarification

I have the coupling ‘fix’ for the 229. Did the write up on IFSJA back in like ‘04

My viscous coupling was shot so on recommendation from my friend, who owns Texas Auto Gear, I pinned the coupler clutches. The hardest part is getting the t-case on the floor jack while laying under the truck.
-Remove t-case,rear output yoke, rear retainer, rear half of case.
-Slowly remove rear output shaft and retrieve the 15 needle bearings that just fell out.
-Lift the viscous coupling off of the side gear but DO NOT REMOVE THE SIDE GEAR! THERE ARE 202 ROLLERS IN AND AROUND THE GEAR!
-Remove the large snap ring from the v/c and from the other side, remove the small allen screw. Apply compressed air to the hole to separate the v/c.The v/c is full of STP so do this in a drain pan.
-Half of the clutches have 5/16 holes all the way aroud and half only have two. Align the holes that are 180 deg apart with two philips head screwdrivers.
-Use 2 grade8, 2 1/2in. long, 5/16 bolts, w/ the heads and threads cut off, as pins to insert through the aligned holes. You will have to grind them to the proper length inorder to put the cover back on the v/c.
-Before putting the v/c back together, remove the rubber seal so that ATF can lubricate the plates against the case.
-Reassemble the t-case with silicone, use bearing grease to hold the needle bearings in place, and put it back in the truck.
-You now have a working 4WD hi range. You can't drive on hard pack in 4wd now,but a new v/c is about 400$. Fair trade off if you ask me.
Total out of pocket?
2-5/16 bolts=1.02
3-qt ATF=5.00
1-silicone=3.50


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[devildog80]

Awesome information.....thanks for reposting

And this does NOT require to have locking front hubs?

Just to modify the TC will work?

[chevelleguy]

Yes, but you can no longer drive it on the street in 4hi.


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[dodgerammit]

Yes, but you can no longer drive it on the street in 4hi.


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Which, again, is why I opted for the 242.

[devildog80]

Never owned one of these full time 4x4 units, so pardon my ignorance, but trying to understand.

Ok.....we basically lock up the viscous coupling with bolts so we have 4 HI for the front axle, and I could drop my rear drive shaft and drive myself back to civlization with front axle only.
But you say I still can't drive that front axle by itself on pavement?

4x4 shift lever for TC 4 HI, Neutral, and 4 LOW....ok

Vacuum selector "in cab" to engage the front axle, instead of lock out hubs I would need to get out and turn by hand, works with viscous coupling action in TC in 4 HI.....ok

Viscous coupling, like having a tiny auto transmission inside the transfer case....when vacuum selector used to engage 4 HI, it senses loss of traction, then grabs & disengages if not needed....ok

4 LOW...locks the front axle in 4x4, essentially locking up the viscous coupler so it can't slip or disengage with both wheels pulling.....ok

Not seeing why if I go through the process to lock up the viscous coupler with bolts, and need to drop my rear shaft, then run with front axle only to get home?
I am not saying interstate speeds on a sunny hot summer day, but your indication is if I try to drive on pavement for any distance, my front axle will be damaged?

Please clarify

[chevelleguy]

That’s not what I meant. Pinning the coupling turns it into a part time case, just like a 208. In that configuration, if you break something in the rear, yes you can drive on the front shaft only. It’s just a cheap fix for those with a 229 that has a bad coupling. I did mine almost 20 yrs ago and it’s still kicking and I too have had to limp it home in front wheel drive after breaking a rear u-joint.


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[devildog80]

Just wanted to be sure, so I understood correctly.

As I am suspect the NP229 in my truck has had some issues in the past, looking at repair receipts from PO's files that came with it, the "pinning" process will stretch my budget possibly years out if it starts acting up again.

But I would say that 98% of my intended use will be in 2wd, so the NP229 might last another 30 years.

Thanks for clarification, to help me understand what I am working with

[dyermullet]

Towed jeep to Minnesota. Pulled dif apart ring and pinion missing teeth DS carrier race split. Axles good Tru Trac good. Ordered parts. Back in montana on our way to pickup camper and try to continue on our trip.

[devildog80]

Good you finally got it in somewhere.

Good luck searching for new ground out there

[dyermullet]

I Installed new ring and pinion. Got about 2,000 miles on it no problems.

Found one split carrier bearing race and broken ring and pinion teeth. The bearings were new timkins when I installed the Tru trac. When cleaning the dif I found a ton of metal shavings in three out of the four carrier bolt holes. Those holes are blind and none of the threads were damaged, so these had been in there since AMC built it. My suspession is when I installed the Tru trac the metal shavings jammed the bolts when torqueing. I don't see any other way could have split the bearing race.