Smogging the 360 in California...

[sansabarJ]

Here's the thing here in CA , I have smogged many classic cars and trucks for many years especially modified vehicalswith tne referee , and not always easily done . Your Jeep must have everything as it came from factory . Nope , no 4 barrel , I've never seen an exemption there .
If it was a 2 barrel then it must be on there. All emissions including EGR has to have it all of it including a convertor if equipped in CA which it will require as well . Now you could attempt to go to a referee without all of it or a 4 barrel and maybe .... he's in a good mood or likes your jeep .he MAY ... let it go , but don't bet on it . 2 choices here only 1 , put everything you need on the Jeep as required for CA emissions . A great source for parts up near Sacramento is J&W JEEP wrecking .
Call MARK DUNCAN at J&W in Antelope CA , he'll have the carb and manifold and most of the parts , and certainly get some parts here from the guys who have offered so far . 2 , The C.A.R.B.
E.O fuel injection set up that would be the BEST solution and a nice upgrade. FIRST , call the referee to ask if the 79 can use this FI and be in compliance. Trust in that trying to circumvent the requirements will result in much aggravation and wasted time.

SansabarJ

[Stuka]

Here's the thing here in CA , I have smogged many classic cars and trucks for many years especially modified vehicalswith tne referee , and not always easily done . Your Jeep must have everything as it came from factory . Nope , no 4 barrel , I've never seen an exemption there .
If it was a 2 barrel then it must be on there. All emissions including EGR has to have it all of it including a convertor if equipped in CA which it will require as well . Now you could attempt to go to a referee without all of it or a 4 barrel and maybe .... he's in a good mood or likes your jeep .he MAY ... let it go , but don't bet on it . 2 choices here only 1 , put everything you need on the Jeep as required for CA emissions . A great source for parts up near Sacramento is J&W JEEP wrecking .
Call MARK DUNCAN at J&W in Antelope CA , he'll have the carb and manifold and most of the parts , and certainly get some parts here from the guys who have offered so far . 2 , The C.A.R.B.
E.O fuel injection set up that would be the BEST solution and a nice upgrade. FIRST , call the referee to ask if the 79 can use this FI and be in compliance. Trust in that trying to circumvent the requirements will result in much aggravation and wasted time.

SansabarJ

He doesn't need a 2v intake manifold. You can pass fine with an Edelbrock Performer with EGR. But it does require the 2V carb or Howell EFI.

[bud248]

Hi, I had the same issue with my 79 cherokee. I have a special smog guy who passes it for me. If you are interested let me know.

[sansabarJ]

Yes you can put on the 4V EGR intake and the TBI GM style2 barrel . But no 4 barrel carburetor . If that's be claimed as ok , it's not . The vehica must be AS IT WAS BUILT factory . As for the idea the earlier vehicals can run around and pollute and not 78 79 up . California always exempts vehicals by age . So it WAS 68 and older for the longest time did not need smogged. Then 72 and older, now 76 and older and So forth .
No logic at all to it . Going to get alot worse I'm afraid at some point in the near future .
Save that for general chat .
SansabarJ

[tgreese]

Just a comment - if you run the Rochester 2V throttle body that Howell and others use, buying another Edelbrock manifold to get the EGR port seems like a waste of money. The Edelbrock may flow slightly better than the factory 2V cast iron manifold, and be lighter, but with the emissions-approved EFI I expect you won't see any gain from the fancy manifold. There are much better places to spend your money IMO.

It's also unlikely that Howell will supply a 2V to 4V adapter in the cost of their kit. There are adapters out there that will match the 2V throttle body to the 4V manifold, but again, why not just use the factory iron 2V manifold? You should be able to find one on the WTB board here or at IFSJA at minimal cost.

4V carburetors were invented to keep the vacuum high at low speed for effective mixture control. The carburetor uses the vacuum as both a source of power (to move the fuel around) and a signal about the fuel demand. EFI uses electricity for power, and the vacuum is only a signal - providing information, nothing more. No need to keep the vacuum high, as long as the vacuum level is measurable. Even the Chevy 454 with TBI uses a 2V throttle body - it's bigger than the 4.3L/305/350 throttle body, but it's still a 2V. And the venturis in a throttle body are uniformly larger than a comparable carburetor, simply because there's no need for high vacuum.

[CosmicRhino]

Just a comment - if you run the Rochester 2V throttle body that Howell and others use, buying another Edelbrock manifold to get the EGR port seems like a waste of money. The Edelbrock may flow slightly better than the factory 2V cast iron manifold, and be lighter, but with the emissions-approved EFI I expect you won't see any gain from the fancy manifold. There are much better places to spend your money IMO.

It's also unlikely that Howell will supply a 2V to 4V adapter in the cost of their kit. There are adapters out there that will match the 2V throttle body to the 4V manifold, but again, why not just use the factory iron 2V manifold? You should be able to find one on the WTB board here or at IFSJA at minimal cost.

4V carburetors were invented to keep the vacuum high at low speed for effective mixture control. The carburetor uses the vacuum as both a source of power (to move the fuel around) and a signal about the fuel demand. EFI uses electricity for power, and the vacuum is only a signal - providing information, nothing more. No need to keep the vacuum high, as long as the vacuum level is measurable. Even the Chevy 454 with TBI uses a 2V throttle body - it's bigger than the 4.3L/305/350 throttle body, but it's still a 2V. And the venturis in a throttle body are uniformly larger than a comparable carburetor, simply because there's no need for high vacuum.

Thank you for the insightful comments and education tgreese. Guess I'm hunting for a factory 2v cast iron manifold.

What I've enjoyed about having a carburetor is its simplicity. I understand how they work, and when I've had issues, I've been able to fix them on my own. When the source of power (vacuum) has been an issue, I've been able to fix or create a vacuum line. What do I do when I have issues with EFI? I'm not as adept at diagnosing issues in the source of power when it's electricity.

I hate electricity. I've got a multimeter and I "know how to use it", except I really don't because I almost always fail to fix my electrical problems. If my EFI just "Stops Working" while I'm out in the wilderness, what then?

[Stuka]

Thank you for the insightful comments and education tgreese. Guess I'm hunting for a factory 2v cast iron manifold.

If it was me, I would still install an edelbrock performer with EGR intake. It will cost a bit more, but they hands down offer better performance, even with a 2v carb or EFI on top.

There is even a guy earlier in the thread that says he has one for sale.

[letank]

IIRC the edelbrock intake with EGR cannot handle the 2 barrel stock carburetor, which is the 2150, you need an edelbrock carburetor.
You can buy all the adapters you want, it does not fit.

I have a spare edelbrock with a small crack around the exhaust port... that I used as a mock up... I need to find pict and ref of the adapter I used, probably the Mr gasket

[Stuka]

IIRC the edelbrock intake with EGR cannot handle the 2 barrel stock carburetor, which is the 2150, you need an edelbrock carburetor.
You can buy all the adapters you want, it does not fit.

I have a spare edelbrock with a small crack around the exhaust port... that I used as a mock up... I need to find pict and ref of the adapter I used, probably the Mr gasket

Putting a 2150 on an edelbrock intake is very common. Not just on FSJ’s, but also on Broncos. The adapters are readily available.

[Dwroach]

My experience passing CA smog 2021 with a 401 4 bbl disguised as a 360 2 bbl. Disguised with oil leaks and paint flaking off the wagonner was originally from Cali with underhood sticker still intact.

I installed the Howell 401 efi kit with CARB E.O. The kit came with a gm tbi to 4 bbl adapter plate that installs ( poorly) on the cast iron 4 bbl intake manifold with egr. This kit allowed the airpump and most vacumm smog crap to be removed. Except the carcoal canister is retained!

The 401 has Doug Thorley headers which also have CARB E.O. number and HEI. I had to get a Pertronics cap and rotor, which also comes with CARB E.O. number (distributor did not). Lastly had to install a new California approved catalytic converter with air tube blocked and keep single exhaust. Did bump up to 3 inch.

Took to a STAR smog shop in San Diego and gave all the installation manuals. After looking them over, the tech agreed to tailpipe smog. I have manual hubs and 2 speed dyno run was done.

Everything was checked! The egr function, the gas take was pressure tested, the serial number on the catalytic verified, pvc unplugged and rattled, check engine light, and vacuum lines installed like underhood Howell sticker.

Verdict: passed well below 360 2 bbl max values in all categories, even with a 401.

Verdict on the Howell efi on a 401. It was a nightmare with zero ability to modify the ECM. First, Howell sent me a bad ECM that took 2 weeks of monkeying around to diagnose (bad internal tach filter). Looked for vacuum leak as everyone suggested. Adapter plate on 4 bbl intake sealed poorly due to not much lip for rtv and gasket. 3 installs to frankly seal, Id switch to 2 bbl intake. Howell says factory fuel line sizes are okay. But 1/4 metal return line forced excess fuel into the tbi and flooded the engine randomly. Moved up to 5/16 line did the trick on stalling but tunerpro still shows running rich. Temp sensor plug was making a poor connection and would flood the engine randomly too. Diagnosed after a second temp sensoring doing the same, fixed with crimping the plug prongs for a more secure connection.

The benifit of efi. Besides CA smog and starting easier. It still runs rough cold until closed loop operation at temp, no choke. Im down on power compared to the 4bbl. Mileage same, worse then horrible. The ecm only gave a code once with all the flooding problems.

Unforseen. I have electric fans on a temp switch in the intake. The only spot for a temp sensor, which is now need for the efi. I got creative and installed a brass T on the rear heater line port off the intake for a second sensor.

Maybe the Howell 360 efi kit with 2 bbl adapter and stock exhaust is a smoother install. Next time, cheap LS swap no question!!!!

[tgreese]

Interesting comments here.

The GM TBI does have a choke, it just does not have a choke flap like a carburetor. Instead it richens the mixture electronically and controls air flow via the idle air control (IAC) valve. Should run better than a choked/carbureted vehicle when cold. Possible the EGR valve pintle needs cleaning. Carbon build-up from exhaust gas can block the EGR valve open at idle, when it should be closed. This will cause a rough idle. Could be that closed loop masks this effect once the engine is up to temperature.

[Dwroach]

@tgrease your right, the open loop and the IAC help with cold starts. Mine seems to add too much fuel. EGR is new and operates off temp with CTO switch. Its also not a fresh engine

Bit more tuning through timing, plug gap, and idle(tps) might do the trick.

Cheers

[ghcoe]

I think the easiest thing to do is move out of California... Problem solved.

[shortbus4x4]

I think the easiest thing to do is move out of California... Problem solved.

but so true. I moved out almost 10 years ago.