Emission Vapor Canister and electric fuel pump

[custom76]

I am installing a canister on my 76 which evidently never had one. I have a 1979 bracket as well as another unknown year bracket. I can’t fund a suitable location to mount either.

Could someone send me a pic where theirs is located preferably on a pre 1980 model?

My mechanical fuel pump works fine except if Wag sits for a few days and takes an enormous amount of pedal pumping to pressurize the line. The PO added a frame mounted screw on AC fuel filter and I’m thinking of adding a low pressure electric pump between the filter and the tank. I’ve read most of the previous threads about this and do not want to put one in the tank.

Any recommendations on one to use and where to mount it or am I tracking the wrong direction?

Thx

[candymancan]

You sure the mechanical pump is your problem. My wagoneer can sit for a week and start with 2 pumps like it always does ?

[tgreese]

Dry bowl syndrome is common for the 21xx series carburetors. It's a lot worse if you have an open element air cleaner. The later models with a flap that closes the air cleaner, and vapor recovery that's solennoid controlled for the float bowl, should be a lot better than the earlier models that don't seal.

Lots of people run an electric with a carburetor. I would not run both - why bother with the mechanical pump when you have the electric? Just one more thing to fail and pump gas into your crankcase. Typically you put the electric pump low and close to the tank, where it's protected but accessible. You also have to decide how to wire it - usually you use the oil pressure signal to cut off the fuel when the key is on and the engine is not running. Lots and lots of coverage of this online if you do your homework. Also, I would caution that long runs of rubber hose are a significant fire hazard. Not my car, but BTDT. Take the time to run hard line and use short pieces of high quality hose to connect the sections. Gates is good, available at RockAuto, or use EFI-rated hose.

[mx71]

The canister is mounted on the passenger side to the inner fender about halfway down the valve cover, maybe a little more towards the front. This link isn't mine, but mine is mounted where this one is. https://www.rustfreeclassics.com/images ... 055%20.JPG

[tgreese]

FIFY. https://tinyurl.com/y3ljaqly

My J20's canister is in more or less that location too. I am using an XJ canister though, which requires a new mounting bracket.

[custom76]

The canister is mounted on the passenger side to the inner fender about halfway down the valve cover, maybe a little more towards the front. This link isn't mine, but mine is mounted where this one is. https://www.rustfreeclassics.com/images ... 0x768].JPG

Link doesn’t work , but your directions are good. I can modify the 79 bracket and make it work there. Thx

[custom76]

You sure the mechanical pump is your problem. My wagoneer can sit for a week and start with 2 pumps like it always does ?

My 76 only has one mechanical pump.

[custom76]

Dry bowl syndrome is common for the 21xx series carburetors. It's a lot worse if you have an open element air cleaner. The later models with a flap that closes the air cleaner, and vapor recovery that's solennoid controlled for the float bowl, should be a lot better than the earlier models that don't seal.

Lots of people run an electric with a carburetor. I would not run both - why bother with the mechanical pump when you have the electric? Just one more thing to fail and pump gas into your crankcase. Typically you put the electric pump low and close to the tank, where it's protected but accessible. You also have to decide how to wire it - usually you use the oil pressure signal to cut off the fuel when the key is on and the engine is not running. Lots and lots of coverage of this online if you do your homework. Also, I would caution that long runs of rubber hose are a significant fire hazard. Not my car, but BTDT. Take the time to run hard line and use short pieces of high quality hose to connect the sections. Gates is good, available at RockAuto, or use EFI-rated hose.

I have a Edelbrock 4 barrel conversion. I totally agree on not using rubber lines. If I ditch the mechanical and add the electric pump why couldn’t I just use the existing metal line? Appreciate the wiring comments, too. Thanks

[candymancan]

Dry bowl syndrome is common for the 21xx series carburetors. It's a lot worse if you have an open element air cleaner. The later models with a flap that closes the air cleaner, and vapor recovery that's solennoid controlled for the float bowl, should be a lot better than the earlier models that don't seal.

Lots of people run an electric with a carburetor. I would not run both - why bother with the mechanical pump when you have the electric? Just one more thing to fail and pump gas into your crankcase. Typically you put the electric pump low and close to the tank, where it's protected but accessible. You also have to decide how to wire it - usually you use the oil pressure signal to cut off the fuel when the key is on and the engine is not running. Lots and lots of coverage of this online if you do your homework. Also, I would caution that long runs of rubber hose are a significant fire hazard. Not my car, but BTDT. Take the time to run hard line and use short pieces of high quality hose to connect the sections. Gates is good, available at RockAuto, or use EFI-rated hose.

Well i have s open air cleaner on mine got rid of the stock air hat and i still dont hsve that issue

[letank]

FIFY. https://tinyurl.com/y3ljaqly

My J20's canister is in more or less that location too. I am using an XJ canister though, which requires a new mounting bracket.

very nice and clean underhood pict, here is mine on a latter year



and the earlier year, the 74

[custom76]

You sure the mechanical pump is your problem. My wagoneer can sit for a week and start with 2 pumps like it always does ?

Just realized you mean two pumps on the gas pedal, not two fuel pumps.

And you are running a stock mechanical fuel pump? I installed a new one, what else would prevent the carb bowl taking so long to get fuel. I have to use starting fluid sometimes. Once it fires it runs good at idle, but has to warm up for 5 or 10 minutes before it will take gas without hesitating.

Thx

[PossumJr]

When you say a lot of pedal pumping to pressurize the line, what does that mean? When you're starting you should only have to pump shot it a time or two to get gas into the intake, pumping the gas excessively before or during starting doesn't pressurize anything and will make starting harder.
My truck previously had an old Edelbrock on it and starting was always a pain (same issues you are experiencing) even when warmed up, I never bothered to figure out why since I slapped a new carb (used actually, converted to a 2bbl 2100 because I'm weird) on in short order, but hard starting went away after that
It's worth checking your choke operation/adjustments if nothing else (as this sounds like a possible culprit to me).

[tgreese]

Seems the OP thinks pumping the pedal will prime the line. If there's no fuel in the float bowls (typical dry bowl syndrome), pumping the pedal does nothing.

With a mechanical fuel pump, the only way to deliver fuel to the float bowl is by pouring it in directly, or waiting for the engine to turn over enough times that the mechanical pump sends fuel to the bowl.

[custom76]

Seems the OP thinks pumping the pedal will prime the line. If there's no fuel in the float bowls (typical dry bowl syndrome), pumping the pedal does nothing.

With a mechanical fuel pump, the only way to deliver fuel to the float bowl is by pouring it in directly, or waiting for the engine to turn over enough times that the mechanical pump sends fuel to the bowl.

I likely have a carb problem, but will make sure the mechanical pump is working well first.
Thx

[custom76]

When you say a lot of pedal pumping to pressurize the line, what does that mean? When you're starting you should only have to pump shot it a time or two to get gas into the intake, pumping the gas excessively before or during starting doesn't pressurize anything and will make starting harder.
My truck previously had an old Edelbrock on it and starting was always a pain (same issues you are experiencing) even when warmed up, I never bothered to figure out why since I slapped a new carb (used actually, converted to a 2bbl 2100 because I'm weird) on in short order, but hard starting went away after that
It's worth checking your choke operation/adjustments if nothing else (as this sounds like a possible culprit to me).

Choke seems to be working fine, likely the carb.
Thx

[custom76]

When you say a lot of pedal pumping to pressurize the line, what does that mean? When you're starting you should only have to pump shot it a time or two to get gas into the intake, pumping the gas excessively before or during starting doesn't pressurize anything and will make starting harder.
My truck previously had an old Edelbrock on it and starting was always a pain (same issues you are experiencing) even when warmed up, I never bothered to figure out why since I slapped a new carb (used actually, converted to a 2bbl 2100 because I'm weird) on in short order, but hard starting went away after that
It's worth checking your choke operation/adjustments if nothing else (as this sounds like a possible culprit to me).

It turned out to be the same issue you had. I installed a new Edelbrock 4 barrel and it fires right up. Fooling with timing now, motor seems happiest when it’s reporting about 23 degrees, which is way too high. My brother in law found some old post about the harmonic balancer or collar slipping which gives false readings. We’re gonna investigate that next. Thanks!

[PossumJr]

It turned out to be the same issue you had. I installed a new Edelbrock 4 barrel and it fires right up. Fooling with timing now, motor seems happiest when it’s reporting about 23 degrees, which is way too high. My brother in law found some old post about the harmonic balancer or collar slipping which gives false readings. We’re gonna investigate that next. Thanks!

Is that 23° base timing or with the vacuum advance connected?

[custom76]

It turned out to be the same issue you had. I installed a new Edelbrock 4 barrel and it fires right up. Fooling with timing now, motor seems happiest when it’s reporting about 23 degrees, which is way too high. My brother in law found some old post about the harmonic balancer or collar slipping which gives false readings. We’re gonna investigate that next. Thanks!

Is that 23° base timing or with the vacuum advance connected?

Base, vacuum pod is shot, replacing it next week