New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

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W300
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New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by W300 » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:28 pm

Just picked up a 1972 Wagoneer with 360, Auto, 4wd and a PTO winch. Its got bench seats, nice dash, pretty much everything is there. Going to have to deal with some rust in tailgate and front driver and passenger side, but everything else is there. Just put a battery in it and most things are working, even the AM radio!

I'm curious about this winch, I fixed up a 1970 W300 Power Wagon some years ago, and it had a factory braden PTO winch on the front, with the factory bumper mounted to the front of the frame extensions. This winch bumper looks like the factory chrome bumper is mounted on the extensions. Was this a factory option? How can I find out more about what could have come factory on a 72 Wagoneer?
Image
Also, I have no keys for this truck, the previous owner only had it briefly and stuck a new ignition switch on it just to turn the motor over. How can I unlock the glovebox? Looking under the dash, the cardboard box is in good condition, be interesting to see what's in it! I'm guessing I can get new lock cylinders for all the doors and the tailgate glass.
Image
Super excited to get going on this project, it's been too long since a had some old iron to wrench on in the garage!

Eric
Last edited by W300 on Sat Oct 02, 2021 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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W300
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by W300 » Sat Oct 02, 2021 9:33 pm

Ok! Linking photos didn't work, what's the best way to share images? I've used preview on my mac and exported as small as I can and it's still 814KB, which is too large to attach.

Ok Flickr it is!

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tgreese
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by tgreese » Sun Oct 03, 2021 6:49 am

You can embed pictures directly via drag-and-drop as long as they are under something like 800x600. Stuka has a post somewhere that gives the correct number in bytes. For example -

saltmountain (724 x 702).jpg
Only works in the "full" editor.

Regarding the winch, Jeep had "Jeep-Approved" Special Equipment that could be ordered on the factory order sheet. Where I worked, they would never order Special Equipment with the Jeep, preferring to configure the Jeeps to the customer's preference. Additionally, equipment like winches were often stolen enroute to the dealership, and Jeep factory installation was usually sloppy.

Anything that appears in the factory parts book as "Special Equipment" I would call "original," whether it was factory or dealer or owner installed. That's a distinction without a difference. IIRC the PTO winch from 1972 is a Ramsey. I don't have a SE catalog for 1972, but my '74-80 SE book shows a Ramsey mounting kit using the original bumper, like what you show. The can mount is added. The '74-80 parts book including SE can be purchased from BJs on paper or I recall on CD-ROM at RockAuto.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by Triumph215 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:31 am

Congratulations on your Wag and very interesting about the winch. My '77 came with an electric winch on it very similar to the setup in your picture. As Tgreese mentions, it was a very sloppy job I chalked up to a home built unit, I pulled it off as soon as I got it home and reattached the bumper in the stock position. I threw away the mount but did keep the winch for potentially reinstalling in the future. Very interesting to see/hear about this winch thing so now I'm glad I kept the winch. I hope it works whenever I get around to putting power to it.
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tgreese
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by tgreese » Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:47 am

Regarding the glove box lock, I would go to a locksmith. If you have the original ignition cylinder, they can make a key that will fit and save you replacing the switch. Same for the doors and the glove box. Won't be free, but probably less than all the parts you'd need to replace.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by Stuka » Sun Oct 03, 2021 8:20 am

That does look like a Jeep brand PTO winch bumper. The winch itself may be a Ramsey or the like. These could be had from the factory, as a dealer option, or installed after purchase.

Really clean looking Jeep.
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Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ


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W300
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by W300 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:53 am

Thanks for the info on special orders, pretty cool to have the period correct winch, regardless of who installed it! I need to get it cleaned up and look for data plates on it.

I don't have the original ignition switch, looks like the previous owner picked up a new one from BJ's. Would it be one key that opens the doors, glove box and tailgate window crank? Could I pull one of the door lock cylinders and have a new key made that would work in all three? I guess I could take the ignition switch in and see if I could have that keyed to the same as the doors? Or just have 2 keys, either way is fine for me.

I'm going to order the service manual from BJ's, and I would like to lift it a bit to run 31s. So far I've only seen the springs on BJ's for a 4" lift. Is that enough to clear 31s without cutting fenders? With that much lift, do I need to replace pitman arm etc.? Not looking to do any hardcore wheeling or anything, would just like it a little bit taller but still functional.

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tgreese
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by tgreese » Sun Oct 03, 2021 1:23 pm

Just drive the Jeep to the locksmith. They can make a key without removing the tumbler. It's surprising - they put the blank key in, wiggle it, look at the marks made by the pins, file, repeat. Eventually they have a key that works. It's a skill, but locksmiths can do this trivially. With the key to the ignition, you can remove the ignition tumbler. It's possible that the locksmith could replace the pins in the ignition switch tumbler to match the doors. You can take the tumbler apart and restack the pins to change the pattern. Dunno, might not be possible or practical on an old lock like this. Maybe.

The glove box is usually keyed like the doors or ignition, but its often a cheap tumbler with just a couple pins. It's not worthwhile to make the glove box so secure, since a thief could pry it open easily. It's a glove box, not a safety deposit box.

It's Special Equipment not special order. Special order is a complete other thing. Jeep Special Equipment was ordinary aftermarket equipment in a box that was printed with the Jeep logo, and delivered through the Jeep factory parts network. All of the Special Equipment was on the regular options list. Difference is it could be dealer installed. Only dealer installed air conditioning ("American Air") is different from the factory installed option. Otherwise dealer installed SE is the same as factory installed SE.

A special order is an ordinary order for a car that you request specifically equipped from the dealership. When dealerships ordered cars, they could pick from a list of Jeeps at the factory that were already built and ready for delivery, or they could order what they wanted and wait for delivery. A customer special order is just an ordinary order where the customer specifies the build. Typically you'd get a better price buying from the vehicles already on the lot, since the dealership wants to turn over the vehicles they have, not order something they do not have.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.


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W300
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by W300 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:15 pm

Still need to get the jeep running in order to take it to a locksmith. I can squirt gas in the carb and it’ll fire for a second, but I’m not getting any fuel up to the fuel filter. I’ll replace the fuel pump, and see if that fixes it. The next problem is the gas cap is a locking one, and again, no key!


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tgreese
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by tgreese » Mon Oct 04, 2021 11:43 am

W300 wrote:
Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:15 pm
Still need to get the jeep running in order to take it to a locksmith. I can squirt gas in the carb and it’ll fire for a second, but I’m not getting any fuel up to the fuel filter. I’ll replace the fuel pump, and see if that fixes it. The next problem is the gas cap is a locking one, and again, no key!


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You can remove a locking gas cap pretty easily with a screwdriver. Pry off the outer steel cover and push back the catches with a screwdriver. It will ruin it, but it's not hard. I would check if a replacement is available before I broke it. Parts support for these vehicles is not extensive, and you would not want to ruin a locking cap you can't replace. Aftermarket parts listings are also often wrong. This is another lock that only has a couple pins and would be easy to pick.

The Jeep will run from a gas can on the cowl. Run a hose to the carburetor and start a siphon. Easy.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.


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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by letank » Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:04 pm

in fact for the gas cap, you can probably try first with the screw driver of the right size instead of the key... works on my honda ignition switch...
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
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W300
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by W300 » Mon Oct 04, 2021 7:22 pm

I’ve got a buddy that will try to pick the lock on the cap on Wednesday. I’ve looked on line at replacement caps, and would prefer to get an original looking one. Maybe if I can get the locking one off I can defeat the locking part of it and just use it until I can get a good replacement.


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Herk
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by Herk » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:34 am

The winch and bumper are Koenig. There were two PTO winch setups available, Koenig and Ramsey. The Koenig used the factory outer bumpers, the Ramsey was an all around more robust winch and bumper. Ramsey still has some parts for their winches, Koenig not so much. Both setups were listed in the "Jeep Special Equipment" catalog for several years. No winch ever came from Toledo, they were generally installed by the dealer.

You can remove the glovebox lock from the rear. Cut away the cardboard glove box, reach up and remove the lock with a stubby screwdriver.

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tgreese
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by tgreese » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:14 pm

I'd never say never about this stuff with Jeep. However, this is the only mount of this type in the '74 SE book -
RamseyMountingKit (638 x 874).jpg
10-20-40 is our Wagoneers and J-trucks. Seems likely there was a similar Koenig setup at some point, which could have been official Jeep SE in 1972 but gone in '74. Or it appeared after 1980. Or it was never official Jeep SE. There is also a Ramsey PTO type for FSJs with a dedicated bumper, and a Ramsey electric with a bumper or hidden, and a Warn electric with a bumper.

Get a close look at the unit and you should find the maker's name on it.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.


Topic author
W300
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by W300 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:32 pm

Took a look at it, and it is a Koenig winch. Didn't even notice the make on the side with all the peeling paint. Looks like it is rusted in the engaged position, so that's going to be fun...

Found this image on line, its exactly the same, even the notch and weld in the flat part of the bumper to angle it back:
Image


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W300
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by W300 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:38 pm

Herk wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:34 am


You can remove the glovebox lock from the rear. Cut away the cardboard glove box, reach up and remove the lock with a stubby screwdriver.

From looking up under the dash, the glove box looks to be in great condition, so I'd rather not hack it apart just to open it. I talked with a lock smith that said the glovebox lock has one less pin than the door locks, so he needs the vehicle brought down so they can make a key. I'll just wait until I get it running then bring it in to have some keys made for the doors and such. Ignition key is different, so I'll finish installing the new ignition switch that I have and use those keys.


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W300
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by W300 » Tue Oct 05, 2021 5:41 pm

I'm missing the passenger side headlight bezel. Does the Razor grill and my grill (is there a nickname for it?) use the same bezels?

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tgreese
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by tgreese » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:27 am

https://jubileejeeps.org/faqs/fsjgrilles.htm Click for more detail.

Usually called the Cheese Grater grille. Only used for a few years. Headlight door (not bezel) might be the same as for the Razor.

Are you aware of the '62-73 parts book online? https://oljeep.com/edge_parts_man.html If the part number for the '72-3 truck is the same as the '72-3 Wagoneer, then yes. Otherwise, unless someone here has personal experience, you'll need the part in hand to determine.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.


Topic author
W300
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Location: Oregon

Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by W300 » Sun Oct 10, 2021 7:37 am

Looks like the razor and cheese grater use the same headlight door, part 3.252-1.
Thanks for providing the links!

Got the fuel pump and old fuel lines replaced, put some fresh gas in the tank, fired right up and idles with good oil pressure. Next on to the brakes!

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Renodemona
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Re: New to me, 1972 Wagoneer! Factory winch? Glove box mystery?

Post by Renodemona » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:06 am

Great to hear! Nice when they are good to go, mostly, right away
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