Octane and Additives

Area for General FSJ related chat.
Post Reply
User avatar

Topic author
HowardT64
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:47 am
Location: Athens,Texas

Octane and Additives

Post by HowardT64 » Thu Sep 10, 2020 12:24 pm

I was told by a good friend and Mechanic that these older engines were not designed to run on Ethanol for very long. Fuel without ethanol is preferred for optimum function. Since I had no choice to put some of this cursed mixture in my tank, I decided to use an octane booster to try and counteract its effects. Now my Jeep smokes!! Scared the crap out of me !!!

Here is what I used... https://lucasoil.com/products/fuel-trea ... ne-booster

Could the additive be causing my exhaust to smoke?

Thanks :) Hope you are all well :)
1990 Grand Wagoneer
Duck Blind 2
360 V8
A/C P/S P/B P/W
Solar Equipped


SJTD
Posts: 1357
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 12:02 pm
Location: Lompoc, Sunland or somewhere between

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by SJTD » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:48 pm

Idunno but what makes you thing you need a higher octane rating than what it says on the pump?

Seems to me the problem with ethanol in fuel is corrosion and maybe the rubber parts get attacked. I don't think that stuff will help.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.


BCRAWLER
Posts: 393
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:11 pm
Location: Vancouver Island,BC

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by BCRAWLER » Thu Sep 10, 2020 2:53 pm

Think what your mechanic is refering to is lead additive. Older engines used this to lube valves I think. New engines runs have stellite valve seats.
1980 Cherokee,360/727/208, propane powered,unknown lift,31' Adventuro's on Chevy rims,Warn winch
1980 J10,360/standard/208, stepside
1970 GMC 4X4 Pickup, 78 frame, 84 350, Turbo 350/205, patina galore
1986 Blazer K5, 350/205/465 trans
1990 Cherokee XJ, about to scrap for FSJ parts, gone to parts graveyard in sky


candymancan
Posts: 2596
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:32 pm

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by candymancan » Fri Sep 11, 2020 5:14 am

Youre friend is wrong. The manual even says ethanol 10% is fine.

I do know my 90 doesnt like 87 or 89 though. Might be a timing issue. Or maybe its because my egr is dead so i plugged it. But it was dead the day i bought it. All i know is if i use 87 or 89 the engine predetonates. Or pings with medium to heavy throttle. So i have to use 93 and it wont ping anymore, it sounds just like my 5.9 Zj engine does if i use 89 or 87. That engine was tuned for 91 or higher. So anything lower predetonates it sounds like marbles ina tin can if your wondering.crackling noises

It sucks having to use 93 when you get 11mpg.. but thankfully im s member of BJs club. And their 93 is 60 cents cheaper than any big chain gas stations 93, exxon, bp,sunoco, shell ect. Their 93 is cheaper than everyones 87 its funny. So every fill up im saving about 10$

So yea., im used to having to use 93 in my 5.9 ZJ so its whatever on the waggy. Though itd be nice to figure out why i need 93 and fix it.

If your engine runs fine on 87.. use 87. You dont need additives. If your engine pings like mine switch a higher grade fuel like 89 or 91 or 93.

The difference in cost between a full tank of 87 and 93 is 10$ or so. How much is your additive ? I garuntee it isnt raising the octane level as much as you can by buying the higher grade gas can. Those bottles are misleading
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 197k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 299k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 138k

User avatar

carnuck
Posts: 3879
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 2:48 pm
Location: Lynnwood, WA
Contact:

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by carnuck » Fri Sep 11, 2020 6:20 am

Depends on your altitude. I discovered that the high octane gas and additives to get it there had a reverse effect in Ouray above 5,000 feet. It slowed combustion so much my motor sputtered like timing was retarded. 85 octane (not E85) worked great. I got better fuel economy (20-25 mpg highway)
Check my parts for sale near Seattle

User avatar

babywag
Posts: 1194
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 7:29 pm
Location: Land of Fruit Loops & Coconuts

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by babywag » Fri Sep 11, 2020 8:17 am

Zero truth or need for that stuff in a stockish/street driven Jeep.
If you have a CAT installed? It may damage it.

You say it's smoking...probably due to increased emissions or/and poor combustion?

I ran e85 for over a year on my '88 with TBI...never gave me any trouble or had any issues. So I claim total BS.
All that is required is tuning for it.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag) '90 GW (aka JunkBucket) both fuel injected.


letank
Posts: 3123
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by letank » Fri Sep 11, 2020 11:24 am

I have been running regular w 10% EtOH for so many years it is hard to remember when it started, this is what is available in the great smoldering state of California. No pinging at any speed or any throttle demand with the stock carburetor... no additives, only the ZDDP added to the the oil.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (227 Kmiles... the running test lab)
See Engine bits , Fuel and brake lines, Body work, Trany and TC

User avatar

Chubbinius
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:33 am
Location: SD, CA

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by Chubbinius » Fri Sep 11, 2020 12:19 pm

My 1970 Wagoneer gets a couple of ounces of StarTron enzyme treatment dumped in with each tank of gas since it helps counteract the ethanol and the related carb gelling/rubber damage. Same thing we used to put into the fuel for lawnmowers/tractors and rototiller for winters or if they were going to be sitting fir a while.
1970 1414X Wagoneer "The Pig"
-Custom Special
-Dauntless 350 V8
-D27 front/D44 rear
2006 XK (65th Ann Edition)-DD

User avatar

Topic author
HowardT64
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:47 am
Location: Athens,Texas

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by HowardT64 » Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:21 am

Ill pull plugs and see if one is not firing...look at the condition of each plug....just may be a bad plug. Star Tron you say? How expensive is this?
1990 Grand Wagoneer
Duck Blind 2
360 V8
A/C P/S P/B P/W
Solar Equipped

User avatar

freehold
Posts: 56
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:52 am
Location: Cackalack

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by freehold » Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:56 am

Several years ago, I pulled out my weed eater after a long winter of not using it only to find the carb was clogged and it wouldn't start. The small engine repair guy asked me what kind of gas I was using for the mix, and I admitted just the cheap stuff from the gas pump. In good southern form, he chuckled and said the ethanol-heavy gas was like sugar water when it sat too long. So I started keeping a can of no-ethanol gas around for all my yard equipment.

I am an English major, so I don't know jack about GW carbs, but I figured it might be simpler just to put the non-ethanol gas in mine. I don't daily drive it, and sometimes there are stretches where it takes me a month or two to exhaust a tank of gas. I don't know if it helps, but I don't think it's hurt anything (except, perhaps, a few extra dollars from my wallet, which I consider the cost of doing business in a GW).

FWIW, there are intense, passionate threads in the Acura MDX forum I've dropped into occasionally about whether you really have to run those engines on midgrade or high-test gas. I think fuel preference may be a sleeper conversation on par with talking religion/politics at Thanksgiving.
1987 GW, 200k miles, AMC 360 engine rebuilt 60k ago, all more or less bone stock
1997 Grand Cherokee ZJ, 243k and still going
When it rains, I drive an MDX

User avatar

Chubbinius
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:33 am
Location: SD, CA

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by Chubbinius » Mon Sep 14, 2020 8:21 am

HowardT64 wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 2:21 am
Ill pull plugs and see if one is not firing...look at the condition of each plug....just may be a bad plug. Star Tron you say? How expensive is this?
It's not too pricey, depending on what size you buy, usually $10-$20 or so a bottle but even the small one usually treats about 100 gallons.
https://www.bing.com/shop?q=stratron+en ... ORM=SHOPTB
1970 1414X Wagoneer "The Pig"
-Custom Special
-Dauntless 350 V8
-D27 front/D44 rear
2006 XK (65th Ann Edition)-DD


candymancan
Posts: 2596
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2016 11:32 pm

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by candymancan » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:03 pm

freehold wrote:
Mon Sep 14, 2020 7:56 am
Several years ago, I pulled out my weed eater after a long winter of not using it only to find the carb was clogged and it wouldn't start. The small engine repair guy asked me what kind of gas I was using for the mix, and I admitted just the cheap stuff from the gas pump. In good southern form, he chuckled and said the ethanol-heavy gas was like sugar water when it sat too long. So I started keeping a can of no-ethanol gas around for all my yard equipment.

I am an English major, so I don't know jack about GW carbs, but I figured it might be simpler just to put the non-ethanol gas in mine. I don't daily drive it, and sometimes there are stretches where it takes me a month or two to exhaust a tank of gas. I don't know if it helps, but I don't think it's hurt anything (except, perhaps, a few extra dollars from my wallet, which I consider the cost of doing business in a GW).

FWIW, there are intense, passionate threads in the Acura MDX forum I've dropped into occasionally about whether you really have to run those engines on midgrade or high-test gas. I think fuel preference may be a sleeper conversation on par with talking religion/politics at Thanksgiving.

Maybe if the gas sits in your lawn equipment for years and isnt cycled through by use. But i have a landscsping business i use 87 octane or 93 if im filling my Jeep up ill fill my cans up.

But i dont have any issues with ethanol in my equipment. EXCEPT for the clear tubing going from thr gas tsnks to the carb they tend to shrink all the time. Very annoying
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 197k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 299k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 138k

User avatar

Topic author
HowardT64
Posts: 1434
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:47 am
Location: Athens,Texas

Re: Octane and Additives

Post by HowardT64 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:09 am

okay, found out that the additive I used, has some degree of oil in it. Not much but its there...ten to one its whats causing my issue :) It may smoke for a bit till its all out of the tank, but after that, im thinking the additive will have helped to burn off excess carbon and such as well. The Star Tron will be the stuff I use from now on...

Thanks for the input :)
1990 Grand Wagoneer
Duck Blind 2
360 V8
A/C P/S P/B P/W
Solar Equipped

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests