Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

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sirrus
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Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by sirrus » Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:24 pm

I'm in the active research stage for putting EFI (Edelbrock Pro Flo 4) in my waggy and decided to create a thread to document my process and also to get as much feedback, advice and opinions as I can. So far that would be the biggest thing I'm doing with my Jeep and it's kind of scary with my lack of experience with EFI and engine work - that's why I want to figure out as much as I can in advance and reduce surprises down the road to minimum.

Thinking about which parts of the job I'm able/comfortable of doing myself (no garage, just a covered parking spot) and which be done by shop. I'm going with Edelbrock MPFI kit, so it'll be more work that TBI install as I'll be swapping intake manifold - I don't see any issues with doing it myself (as long as I get some help with lifting that damn intake :)).

I have a bit of concern about the fact that Pro Flo comes with single plane Victor Jr style of intake which is good for higher RPMs. However as I understand it mostly applies to carbureted applications and doesn't matter that much when you have just air flowing through it. Am I right?

Then there is a list of additional things:
  • new alternator - my stock 78amp stock alt is struggling at idle even after rebuild, so new Powermaster unit, either 140/80 or 150/100 amp
  • gaskets (thermostat and valley pan) as Edelbrock kit has only intake ports gaskets. I'll have to go over installation manual to check if need any other gaskets
  • throttle linkage adapter - was mentioned somewhere that I'll need this, BJs had one that should work. Only concern is about TV linkage to transmission as installation instructions for linkage adapter only mention kickdown cable
  • new ignition coil and wires - I need new wires anyway, maybe throw in better coil while I'm at it? I was thinking about upgrading ignition to MSD streetfire before, but not sure if it's going to work with Pro Flo distributor (need to read Edelbrock guide about ignition for more details) and if I actually need it
And now the part on which I can't decide yet - what to do with fuel delivery for EFI. Two options that I think I have
  • In-tank electric pump - quiet and doesn't require any additional components under the hood, but harder to install and to service, and I'll have to upgrade fuel lines from tank to engine. Doesn't solve issue with fuel sloshing around due to lack of baffles in tank, so will need something like Holley Hydramat. Anyway this will probably require dropping the tank, which I'm not really comfortable doing in the parking lot [yet]
  • Surge tank/sump (RobbMC or Edelbrock) - no mods required for fuel tank or lines from it to under the hood, no dropping tank. Can even keep the mechanical pump, however I'd prefer having a electric one. No issues with sloshing fuel as surge tank acts as a buffer. What bugs me about this approach is having two fuel pumps (low pressure (mech or electrical) and high pressure in surge tank) - that looks a bit excessive. However all components can be relatively easy to reach and replace if needed.
What do you guys think? Does this all make any sense? Am I missing anything?
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver
Relay modules and other parts for sale
How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


gophman
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Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by gophman » Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:10 am

I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on one of these kits myself, I think you've pretty much got everything covered.

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sirrus
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Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by sirrus » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:47 am

gophman wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 7:10 am
I'm getting ready to pull the trigger on one of these kits myself, I think you've pretty much got everything covered.
What's your plan for fuel system?

I'm leaning towards surge tank way, as it should be way easier than putting pump and hydramat into stock tank. Going to look closer at RobbMC and Edelbrock tanks and their dimensions, try to picture where I can mount it.
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver
Relay modules and other parts for sale
How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


gophman
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Joined: Sat May 20, 2017 1:20 am

Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by gophman » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:50 am

I'm definitely going for the Robbmc surge tank.

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gophman
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Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by gophman » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:50 am

I know of a few folk that have fitted the Robbmc unit in the engine bay of an FSJ.

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Topic author
sirrus
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Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by sirrus » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:55 am

gophman wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:50 am
I'm definitely going for the Robbmc surge tank.
So far I like RobbMC surge tank better than Edelbrock sump - not so expensive and it's metal, not plastic.
gophman wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:50 am
I know of a few folk that have fitted the Robbmc unit in the engine bay of an FSJ.
Do you know where did they mounted it in engine bay? I have couple ideas, but want to see what worked for other people
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver
Relay modules and other parts for sale
How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


gophman
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Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by gophman » Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:58 am

I don't tbh but there should be ample room on the passenger side inner fender.

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Topic author
sirrus
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Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by sirrus » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:03 pm

gophman wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 11:58 am
I don't tbh but there should be ample room on the passenger side inner fender.
Evap canister bracket on pass side would be perfect, however I'm not sure whether I can/should remove it.
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver
Relay modules and other parts for sale
How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


ShagWagon
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Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by ShagWagon » Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:37 am

You don’t need to drop the tank on an88. My surge tank overheated and failed at idle or low rpms.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.


Topic author
sirrus
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Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by sirrus » Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:08 pm

ShagWagon wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:37 am
You don’t need to drop the tank on an88.
I thought that if I'm going for in-tank high pressure pump, I'd need to replace fuel lines from tank to engine bay, at least the rubber hoses. Can I do that without dropping the tank?
ShagWagon wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:37 am
My surge tank overheated and failed at idle or low rpms.
Interesting. What was the surge tank that you used and where did you mount it? Any heat wrapping?
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver
Relay modules and other parts for sale
How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


ShagWagon
Posts: 699
Joined: Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:13 pm

Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by ShagWagon » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:18 pm

sirrus wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 12:08 pm
ShagWagon wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:37 am
You don’t need to drop the tank on an88.
I thought that if I'm going for in-tank high pressure pump, I'd need to replace fuel lines from tank to engine bay, at least the rubber hoses. Can I do that without dropping the tank?
ShagWagon wrote:
Sun Nov 15, 2020 10:37 am
My surge tank overheated and failed at idle or low rpms.
Interesting. What was the surge tank that you used and where did you mount it? Any heat wrapping?
It’s been a few years since I did it. Sending unit hose will slide through the top to the metal lines. Put a bolt in the hose while you push so you don’t get dirt in the hose. Then it’s hard lined to the front, then to a filter, then to the TB. The hardest part is folding it all up, and stuffing it through the hole without dropping off the float lol. And you have do it a few times to measure it a few times to get the fuel gauge set right.

Mine was a first generation FuelCommandCenter when it didn’t move in enough cool fuel it overheated from within no matter where you put it. If it idled for about 15 min it would overheat and shut down. Or if you was in low gear climbing for a while it would BEEP down. If you moved gas through it it would stay cool and run.

The newer ones seem a lot better and you can use with confidence if you want that route.
87 Grand Wagoneer Rebuilt 360 by S&J, Fitech GO EFI 600, Novak in-tank fuel pump, Skyjacker Hydro 4" lift, BFG AT KO2 30", Dynamax Muffler, MSD distributor, MSD ignition, Edlebrock perf 4bbl intake, Elgin perf cam, Oil tube mod, Roller rockers, chrome molly lifters, HD alum radiator, Powermaster 150/100 alt, Alum HD water pump, Serhills tailgate harness, Cowl screen mod, Evil Twin grab handles, Rstep's custom AMC door lock knobs, all electrical works.


Topic author
sirrus
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Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by sirrus » Sun Nov 15, 2020 6:41 pm

Thanks for the info!

I've put in new fuel sender recently, so I know the struggle with showing it down that hole :) Probably even worse with pump and everything.

Good idea about sliding hose there! I may replace it at some point, it looked somewhat crusty but not cracked or leaking. I know about hard line, but when I was under the Jeep last time it was hard to see where hard line turns into rubber hose.

As for surge tank (and I'm pretty much set on getting RobbMC tank from BJs) - they seem to run cool in general, with return from pressure regulator going back to surge tank and separate return from surge tank going to main tank. That looks like enough circulation to keep it from overheating. Anyway I'm going too wrap it in some heat reflective stuff as they suggest in the instructions.
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver
Relay modules and other parts for sale
How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


Topic author
sirrus
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Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by sirrus » Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:54 pm

ShagWagon, another question - I noticed from your signature that you're running Powermaster 150/100 amp alternator, did you connect 2 pin plug into it or it's not necessary? Instruction says it's only for idiot light and not needed otherwise, but I just wanted to double check

UPD: after looking closely at wiring diagram from TSM I'm pretty sure I can get rid of that plug
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver
Relay modules and other parts for sale
How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)


Topic author
sirrus
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Posts: 460
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2019 11:13 pm
Location: Hillsboro, OR

Re: Planning for Edelbrock Pro Flo

Post by sirrus » Thu Nov 19, 2020 12:53 pm

Figured out alternator situation - no need to connect exciter plug, just have to reclock the alt itself. And upgrade charge wire to 6AWG with 10 AWG fusible link to match it.

While thinking about wiring upgrades it hit me that I'll have to add at least 3 relays (ECU main power, low pressure fuel pump, high pressure pump) under the hood. I don't like having individual relays mounted somewhere on the fender/firewall and all wiring mess that comes with it. And to be honest my first version of headlight relay harness is a bit of eyesore with al wires and fuses dangling around

Image

Idea is to put all that stuff into some fuse/relay box like Eaton Bussmann RTMR. No more messy wiring and all relays and fuses stay in one waterproof enclosure - perfect. While I'm at it I'm also entertaining idea of moving other relays to this one location (like fog lights) or maybe adding couple to relieve the ignition switch. Anyway, the whole upgrade thing is getting bigger and bigger, thanks to my "while I'm in there..." approach :D

On the fuel delivery side - it's going to be a RobbMC surge tank and I'm going to remove mechanical pump and use a low pressure electrical one to get gas from main tank to surge tank.

Of course there is a question what pump to get and where to put it, so far I've narrowed it down to two options:
  • Holley Red
  • Carter P4070
I prefer metal pumps, so mighty mite and Mr. Gasket/Edelbrock plastic ones are out of the question. Holler vs Carter - I've read good things about both of them and they have almost identical specs, but Holley is almost 3 times more expensive than Carter :) I think I'll get Carter pump and maybe a spare one to carry, just in case.

Where to mount the pump - still looking at my options, it's going to be somewhere on the frame and I think I'll figure that out once I have the pump in my hands.

How to wire the pump? Edelbrock ECU has a wire to control a pump and it goes on for 8 seconds when you first turn ignition on to prime the lines. Using that signal as a trigger for both pumps relay looks obvious, but I'm also thinking whether I should incorporate any overrides for that, either safety (like oil pressure switch) or manual. More looking at wiring diagrams is required
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - bone stock (AMC 360, TF727, NP229), slowly turning into reliable and nice daily driver
Relay modules and other parts for sale
How to clean electric switches (power windows, locks, seats)

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