My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Got exhaust fixed today, took the guy 15 minutes to properly weld all the bad spots. Reset the self-learning and within few minutes of driving all issues I had were gone! Idle is rock steady at idle target rpm (I set it to 750, powermaster alternator is struggling below 700). It stalled after I put fresh gas in it (had 3/4 tank of gas sitting since early February), reset self-learning again and adjusted IAC - smooth sailing from there.

Overall it's amazing - feels like more power, great throttle response, no surging or bogging. I love ProFlo :)

Lube helped with speedo cable - it's quiet now with just a bit of bouncing, but it's barely noticeable and happens only at low speeds (below 20mph). I think it'll be gone after new cable settles.

Tranny is shifting better, did couple more fine adjustments with the cable stop and I'm happy with it now.

Oil pressure is reading normal now, I guess before I didn't let oil warm up all the way and that was the reason for higher pressure. New temp sender is going to show tomorrow and of course the old one decided to come back alive :)
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

I really dislike connector for stock coolant temp sender, why would you use bullet connector if there are perfect metric threads on it? That thing was getting loose all the time I have the Jeep, then I replaced the connector when it fell apart and in a short time started seeing the same behavior all over again :banghead:

Now my sender is on it's last leg and I just got a new one today, so I spent few minutes playing around with M5 hardware that I had laying around. Here's what I ended up with

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To avoid something touching exposed metal and screwing up gauge readings I wanted to insulate both nuts. A bit of heat shrink on lower nut and liquid electrical tape on top acorn nut and it looks better

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Here's how it looks assembled

Image
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

Johnzi10
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by Johnzi10 »

You make Wagonmasters look like amateurs!
2020 Cherokee Limited v6. Wife’s Jeep
2002 Grand Cherokee Laredo Daughters Jeep
1998 XJ Cherokee “the Ghost”
1989 Grand Wagoneer my Covid mental health medicine

TimGee
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by TimGee »

sirrus wrote: Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:55 am
Clarion M508 - same functionality, looks very good and it's $190 at crutchfield. Bought it and two pairs of Polk DB522 speakers. Cool thing about crutchfield - they included all wiring adapters (stereo and speakers) and mounting frame for free, so installation was easy

Image

And goal achieved - I can listen to music again and it does not stick out like a sore thumb.
Hi Sirrus,

I was wondering if you could tell me what wiring adapter (harness) You used for the Clarion M508. I purchased the same head unit from Crutchfield and it only came with connector for the back of the head unit that ends in bare wires. It looks like I need two 8 pin connectors. I found the connector for the antenna.

Here are some picts:
IMG_6227.JPG
IMG_6228.JPG
IMG_6229.JPG
Thanks in advance!

Tim
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1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. 360ci V8. Holly Fuel Injection

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Hi Tim,

I used Metra 70-1002 Receiver Wiring Harness that Crutchfield shipped with my stereo, it matched perfectly with factory connector on my 88.

Here's a pic with stereo guts out, you can kind of see the connector/adapter I have

Image

From your last picture it looks like you have a different connector (2 8pin instead of single 12-ish pin I have on my rig). I went through adapters Crutchfield sells and found this - Metra 70-1000 Receiver Wiring Harness, description says that it works for "select 1986-88 AMC, Eagle, Jeep, and Renault vehicles" and it looks correct for your connectors. Here's a pic:

Image

AMC was using whatever they had in a parts bin for last years :D

Just in case you or someone else needs it, I used Metra 72-1002 Speaker Wiring Harness for speakers (if you're keeping factory speaker wiring) and Scosche 010FJ1550B Dash Kit to mount new stereo in the dash
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

TimGee
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by TimGee »

sirrus wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 1:40 pm Hi Tim,

I used Metra 70-1002 Receiver Wiring Harness that Crutchfield shipped with my stereo, it matched perfectly with factory connector on my 88.
Thanks Sirrus. I was able to re-use the original dash mount and it seems to fit well.

I was unable to find a dedicated wiring harness that goes to the two 8-pin harnesses so I just re-used the wiring harnesses off the old stereo. The speaker harness was easy but any chance you can help me sort out some of the other wires for the “POWER” Harness. Here are the wiring diagrams for the new and the old stereo.
IMG_6232 copy.jpg
IMG_6233 copy.jpg
I can see that "BLACK" (B) (old Jeep diagram) goes to the black wire on the new stereo. “PINK” (D) goes to the yellow wire on the new stereo. “GRAY” (F) goes to the Blue wire but which connections should I make for (A), (C) and (E)?

Any idea?

Tim
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1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. 360ci V8. Holly Fuel Injection

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sirrus
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

I never rely on colors, especially if it's not brand new vehicle, it's better to go by function instead. You also want to start from new stereo side - what do I need for it to work and where do I get the required signal from old wiring. With rare exceptions there is no need to connect every lead of original harness to something on the new one.

So here are you "old" wires:
A (violet with tracer) is ACC/IGN - means it receives 12V when key in ACC or RUN position. That would go to power lead wire (red) on new stereo

C and E are used for auto dimming stereo backlight, so it doesn't blind you at night (when your headlights (or park lights in this case) are on) or interior lights dimmer can also control illumination of the radio. Keep in mind, even though I'm sure that's how it works, it is still just my guess since I don't know exactly how old radio used these inputs.

Clarion M508 unit is actually a marine head unit and thus doesn't have the option to automatically dim it's illumination depending on headlights being on or off. That sucks, but I got used to it - it actually has a manual setting for brightness (high or low), I left it on low and it's OK even at night. Some people are saying it's too bright, and I read a post somewhere where someone took the unit apart and put some sort of yellow film over the screen. That lowered the brightness and made it more consistent with the rest of dash illumination which is yellow. Haven't tried that as I'm fine with brightness on low setting.

I played around with connecting different wires to M508's illumination lead (orange/white) and I think I left it connected to a wire that has 12 volts when lights are on (that would be E (blue) in your case). I'd suggest checking when C or E get 12V (multimeter or test light) and how M508 behaves with and without 12V on illumination lead. Unfortunately, I don't remember, but it should only take few minutes to figure out with voltmeter. Once you have an idea how it works, make a permanent connection.

Hope that helps!
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

TimGee
Posts: 28
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by TimGee »

sirrus wrote: Mon May 24, 2021 7:09 pm I never rely on colors, especially if it's not brand new vehicle, it's better to go by function instead. You also want to start from new stereo side - what do I need for it to work and where do I get the required signal from old wiring. With rare exceptions there is no need to connect every lead of original harness to something on the new one.

So here are you "old" wires:
A (violet with tracer) is ACC/IGN - means it receives 12V when key in ACC or RUN position. That would go to power lead wire (red) on new stereo

C and E are used for auto dimming stereo backlight, so it doesn't blind you at night (when your headlights (or park lights in this case) are on) or interior lights dimmer can also control illumination of the radio. Keep in mind, even though I'm sure that's how it works, it is still just my guess since I don't know exactly how old radio used these inputs.

Clarion M508 unit is actually a marine head unit and thus doesn't have the option to automatically dim it's illumination depending on headlights being on or off. That sucks, but I got used to it - it actually has a manual setting for brightness (high or low), I left it on low and it's OK even at night. Some people are saying it's too bright, and I read a post somewhere where someone took the unit apart and put some sort of yellow film over the screen. That lowered the brightness and made it more consistent with the rest of dash illumination which is yellow. Haven't tried that as I'm fine with brightness on low setting.

I played around with connecting different wires to M508's illumination lead (orange/white) and I think I left it connected to a wire that has 12 volts when lights are on (that would be E (blue) in your case). I'd suggest checking when C or E get 12V (multimeter or test light) and how M508 behaves with and without 12V on illumination lead. Unfortunately, I don't remember, but it should only take few minutes to figure out with voltmeter. Once you have an idea how it works, make a permanent connection.

Hope that helps!
Yes this helps tremendously. Thank you so much and have a great night. I'll post back when I'm finished with the install.
1987 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. 360ci V8. Holly Fuel Injection

JeepNorris
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by JeepNorris »

sirrus wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:43 pm Not a lot of progress since we got few days of real winter here in Oregon and it's too cold to work outside.

Valve covers are back on the engine, along with new distributor and cleaned up thermostat housing (hole for CTO is plugged now)

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Printed a mount for ECU and put it where Duraspark box used to be

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And my first time trying to fab something out of metal (aluminum flat bars in this case) - bracket for Edelbrock fuel sump . Sump will be mounted on driver side fender, under overflow tank. Bracket is a bit crooked as I was measuring it off the sump itself, only to find out exact dimensions on the last page of installation instruction when I cut and riveted everything together... :banghead:

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Two rivnut for bottom bolt because II initially put it "wrong" way (would have a loop of wiring around it) - now I can mount the sump facing either way

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Bottom straps should've been a couple inches longer - originally I was planning to bolt them to fender as well, but after fitting the bracket it doesn't look like an option. Both bottom straps would be fixed to the frame, debating on exact way of mounting now (extend with aluminum or print plastic parts, drill frame and put a rivnut or use VHB tape).

Can you share some pics of installed sump tank under coolant reservoir? I'm struggling to find space for it with all existing components in the way. See attached pic of how crowded my engine bay is...
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My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Here’s the only pic that I’ve found on my phone

Image

That’s with overflow bottle off, you can see a bit of washer bottle on the right. I’ve removed air pump and factory cruise (replaced by DD cruise kit).

I’m out of town for the weekend, will get better pics when I get back
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Couple more pictures showing where I put surge tank

Image

Image

Image
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

It's time to move on to other things and this Waggy is for sale now - 1988 Grand Wagoneer for sale
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy
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BaldBeardedBastard
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by BaldBeardedBastard »

Shame to see you part with it- you did a lot of innovative upgrades.

Hopefully you will stick around in the community and realize the folly in trying to stay away from FSJs and get another someday. :-)

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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Thanks! I always love an interesting challenge, and FSJ have a lot of opportunities to re-engineer something :)

And oh boy I learned a lot about cars since I got it! Don’t know how carburetor works - why not rebuild it and figure it out in the process?

Image

Transmission shifting funny? Of course doing the full flush in a parking lot on New Year’s Eve when it’s snowing is a great idea! And so on :)

It’s not gone yet and I’m not in a big hurry to sell. Who knows, maybe no one will be interested and I’ll keep it?
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy
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BaldBeardedBastard
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by BaldBeardedBastard »

sirrus wrote:Not enough time to work on the Jeep recently, but I've made some progress!

Got tired of having to slam rear doors to close and finally adjusted strikers. Closes way easier and I think new weatherstripping cut down road/wind noise just a bit.

After enjoying quite ride for a couple days I started hearing very loud rattling from pass side of engine bay when driving, sounded like I had a dozen empty tin cans hanging there. Turns out that heat stove shield on the new manifold was barely riveted and half of rivets undid themselves (heat expansion probably helped). I don't have warm air intake anymore (vacuum motor at the flap leaks and temp sensor is dead), so ripped that thing off and it's quiet again. Can't wait to get my Edelbrock MPFI and get rid of all that vacuum contraptions!

Now onto the big thing - electrical upgrades as a preparation for EFI. Reclocked and installed Powermaster alt, made new charge wire (6ga wire with 10ga fusible link) and cut 2pin connector off as new alt doesn't need it.

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Also replaced battery lugs with "mil spec" ones like these, makes easier to connect several thick wires directly to battery. 100 amp fuse in the pic above protects wire going to fuse/relay box.

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I never liked factory "power distribution" point on a starter relay stud - looks messy and when I added relays for headlights that are powered off the same stud it made it look even worse

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Tidied it up with busbar and looks much better now! Would be easier to hook up anything later if I need to

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I've removed factory cruise control and installed Bussmann fuse/relay box. Designed and printed mount for the box to be sit where cruise vacuum canister used to be

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Box itself is amazing - has 2 busses (each rated at 100A), easy to build (uses Metripack 280 terminals/seals) and waterproof. You can see a lot of green plugs on the back as for now it's just 4 relays and 6 fuses, but I'll add more as I'll be installing EFI, electric fuel pump, DD cruise control, etc. There are two busbars next to it - ground (bigger with clear cap) and ignition (black caps).

So far I've moved headlights and fog light relays to the box and ripped out factory headlights wiring behind the grille. Moved power feed for USB/aux socket and DD remote to the box as well, they were spliced into wiring behind fuse panel before. Last relay is supplying power to AC/heater blowers - I've noticed that every time I've turned heater or AC on needle on dash voltmeter would dive towards red zone. Figured better/cleaner power supply wouldn't hurt and that was right - dash voltmeter now reads exactly the same voltage as under the hood and heater blows stronger. As a bonus heater fuse is in more accessible location now.

To pass wires through firewall I used the hole previously occupied by cruise hose and wiring, but unfortunately old grommet disintegrated

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Couldn't find new grommet for 1 inch hole in the stores and on amazon. Only option was to pay $16 for this piece of rubber and wait for a week. Screw that, spent couple hours and designed/printed a new one from TPU

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I've routed power to the relay box along existing wiring behind the grill using the same 6ga wire for both 12V and ground feeds straight from battery (12V comes through 100 amp fuse).

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While doing that saw that my transmission oil cooler is weeping a bit, will have to get back to it later and replace old hoses (cooler itself looks fine). Also broke one of the tabs on park/turn light, hence the temporary repair with clear RTV while I wait for BJs to reopen in January

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And when I was almost done hood release cable decided to let go

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One more thing to order from BJs :) And finally I've found the source of strange squeaking sound that was appearing from time to time when steering (wheel was getting a bit heavier at the same time). Turns out front axle vent hose was getting stuck between frame and rag joint and got halfway eaten through

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Moved it away and securely zip tied along with all new wiring - I'll make it all pretty after I'm done with EFI and cruise as there will be more wiring.

Now waiting for Edelbrock kit to arrive, so I can get O2 bung welded in (and do something about loud exhaust at the same time) and it's MPFI time!
I am actually following suit with the Bussmann two busbar fuse block. I got a 130a relay to trigger off the key so I can have a constant and a keyed bus.

I haven't had any luck with my searching so a question for you- did you find flasher/hazard relay that fits the iso relay sockets of the Bussmann?

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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Hmm, for whatever reason I didn't think about moving flasher into the box. Interesting idea!

Did a quick search and it looks like there's not a lot of ISO 280 flashers indeed, seems in modern cars flashing itself is controller by BCM or some other computer and uses relay just as a switching component. I found 2 part numbers though - Bussmann 761 and 762 that are actually flasher relays. Difference is that 761 is 3 blade and 762 has 4 blades. Both are rated for 12.6 amps (or 2-6 bulbs) and are available on Amazon. They look kinda bulky, so there might be clearance issues.
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy

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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Took a closer look at pin arrangement for 762 (4 pin variant) and it wont fit into bussmann box as it has pins arranged in a T shape
s-l640.jpg
761 (3 pin) should fit OK
814.gif
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Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy
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BaldBeardedBastard
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by BaldBeardedBastard »

Yeah I had gotten the 762- pin out doesn't work like you said. But I will check out the 761- that may work. Thanks!ImageImage

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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by sirrus »

Maybe you can peel/cut the cover over middle pin hole of bussman box and use it? I don't remember if there is a functional hole for female terminal under that cover
Sometimes we reinvent the wheel not to have more wheels but to have more inventors

1988 Grand Wagoneer - AMC 360 with ProFlo4 MPFI, TF727, NP229 FOR SALE
2021 JLU Willys EcoDiesel - new shiny toy
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BaldBeardedBastard
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Re: My 1988 Grand Wagoneer

Post by BaldBeardedBastard »

Doesn't look like it, but I will investigate. Thanks again and pardon the thread hijack!Image

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