1965 J200 with Tornado 230

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Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

Here’s my introduction and the start of my build thread.

Picked this up last weekend from a local seller, seems it spent most of its time as a farm truck. It was repainted on the exterior at some point, and the bodywork was done fairly well, but not the paint.

Drove it 10 miles home with my foot half on the gas most of the way due to poor carb tuning.

Floorboards are toast, tailgate bottom edge is shot, corners of the bed need work, but there’s a lot going for it.

It runs! Shifts good, most all the interior and emblems are present and accounted for. Body is quite straight. Cooling system works.

I lost probably a quart of oil on the 10 miles home, so spent a couple evenings on Google sourcing 230 engine parts.... no small feat. I’ll post links to what I found tomorrow, but if anyone has any to add, I’m all ears!

I’m no stranger to Jeeps or mechanics, but I’m a cabinetmaker by trade, so metal can be a bit foreign to me at times. Had an 85 CJ7, 88 Comanche, 98 TJ, 98 Cherokee, those are all gone. Have another 98 TJ in the driveway, but I don’t think it’ll be staying long.
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And a couple of my helpers...

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Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

It has a 1 barrel intake with the Holley 1920 carb. I ordered a rebuild kit for it from www.carburetor-parts.com a super helpful website with a ton of YouTube videos too.

The truck was having a lot of trouble idling at all, which is why I ordered the kit. After I ordered the kit, I watched one of his videos where he mentions as a side note that a lot of electric in line fuel pumps have too much pressure for carbs like this and cause them to run rough. I think that’s a part of my problem, so I’ll have to add a fuel pressure regulator in somewhere.

It also has the old school oil bath air filter on it, which I’ll either swap out or alter to accept a round paper filter.

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Overall, the carb is in decent shape, but I may still have some issues. The brass throttle plate shaft is worn pretty good and has a lot of slop in the bushings. I may try to re-bush it to save some coin for now.

I’ve been looking at my options for carbs and intakes (apparently there’s a 2bbl intake for the 230 out there too), and ran across this. Anybody have any thoughts on this?

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre ... 3468125607


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Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

Dropped the oil pan tonight, found good news and bad news.

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See the brazing on the left and right sides of the top end of the pan? Looks like somebody threw the #6 cylinder rod at some point. The oil pan is dented from the inside out right under the #6 cylinder. That’s the bad news.

The good news is that the oil in the pan was clean. No water, nothing metallic at all

This does confirm my need to do a compression test, which I’ve never done before, but I’m sure I can figure it out. Planning on renting the tools for it from Autozone.

Here’s a couple shots of the cylinder head, things look fairly clean to me, nothing super grody looking. The truck didn’t come with a title, so I don’t have a previous mileage on it except the odometer which reads 15k and change. I assume that’s more like 115k, but who knows!

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66stepside
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Location: Spokane Valley, WA.

1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by 66stepside »

That looks like you got a good start to a blossoming addiction- welcome to the fray!


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mud89
Posts: 641
Joined: Sun Jun 10, 2012 1:09 pm
Location: Burgundy, France

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by mud89 »

Welcome !
I have a red 64
What letter do you have in the VIN after the four digits "2406" ?
J10 81, J10 77, CJ7 80, Gladiator 64, Wagoneer 65, ZJ 5.9
parts vehicles : wagoneer 63, cherokee Golden eagle

Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

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mud89
Posts: 641
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Location: Burgundy, France

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by mud89 »

Thanks for sharing, i was wondering if it was a late Tornado example built in 1965, but according to the vin plate it's a '65 built in september 1964
J10 81, J10 77, CJ7 80, Gladiator 64, Wagoneer 65, ZJ 5.9
parts vehicles : wagoneer 63, cherokee Golden eagle

Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

Gotcha.
What would the significance of the late Tornado be?


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Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

66stepside wrote:That looks like you got a good start to a blossoming addiction- welcome to the fray!
Thanks! You've got some great builds on here..... I intend to look over the 4.0/XJ swap writeup, as right now that's my #1 alternative for a prospective engine swap if this Tornado turns into a Cat 5 and scatters it's guts everywhere from hell to breakfast. I like the idea of keeping it Jeep, and I too saw that the 4.0/Dana 300 combo looked like it would work. We'll see...... Plan A is to get the Tornado spinning like one.
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mud89
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Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by mud89 »

offthebeatenpath wrote:Gotcha.
What would the significance of the late Tornado be?


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The 327ci V8 engine was introduced in April 1965 and the 232ci L6 in August/September 1965, so few Gladiators were produced with the earlier Tornado engine in 1965.
They are easy to identify : their Gross Vehicle Weight is slightly different from the earlier ones (except the duallies), the 5th digit in the VIN is "W", "X ,"Y" or "Z" instead of "A", "B", "C", "D", the serial number being still in the 10,000 range.
J10 81, J10 77, CJ7 80, Gladiator 64, Wagoneer 65, ZJ 5.9
parts vehicles : wagoneer 63, cherokee Golden eagle

Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

Well, with parts en-route for the carburetor, oil pan, rear main seal and valve cover, I decided to tackle a couple other small items.
Since I'm not going for a full restoration, I'd like to get this truck back on the road as soon as possible and work on the incidental items as they come up.

With that in mind, I set off on a couple other small tasks that do need to be checked off the list. My wife helped me pull and disassemble the bench seat, which was in poor shape, and looking worse the further we got into it. I think we salvaged enough of the original vinyl for her to be able to create a pattern for the new seat cover, but I'm going to have to do some serious work to repair the springs, or search for a donor seat. Might do that this weekend, I found a couple semi-local junkyards that may have a couple J-trucks or Waggy's in the back.

I pulled the oil pump and cleaned it off good, I didn't fully disassemble it as I don't have any gaskets for it and can't seem to find them available anywhere. Looks like I'll be reinstalling it with RTV only, unless I want to cut my own gasket for it.

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As long as I'm into the motor this deep, I'm planning on going the next step and removing the timing cover to check the timing chain. I really don't want to do it, but I'd hate to skip this step and miss something major. My valve cover was leaking so bad that it's hard to tell what else was leaking. I think one of my major hesitations with that is having to reset the timing since the distributor mounts in the timing cover, as does the oil pump. But, I reckon I can figure it out one way or another.....

Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

It’s a damn good thing I took that timing cover off.... anybody have an oil pump drive gear that they can sell me?

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The culprit. This and some other bits look like the scattered remains of a previous timing chain tensioner spring.

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Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

The custom cabinet shop that I run operates on schedule of four 10-hour workdays, so it feels like I get an extra weekend day. I don't get a lot done on weekday evenings though, I'm usually pretty wiped. Weather was pretty crummy this weekend, but I got a few things done.

Found a source for the oil pump drive gear, which I'll get ordered today or tomorrow along with some engine mounts.
https://shop.willysamerica.com/Oil-Pump ... m?CartID=3

Due to the unforeseen expense of the timing gear, I decided to make a few of the gaskets that I need instead of buying them.
I needed an oil pump gasket (no one sells that anyway), a water pump gasket ($12), and the timing cover gasket ($50). I had a roll of fiber gasket material in box in the shop, so I cut the oil pump and water pump gaskets out of that. I had to order a larger sheet for the timing cover because I need 12" x 20" in order to cover it. Here's what I ordered:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000H ... 0DER&psc=1

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All told, it should save me about $50 for 20 or 30 minutes of work. Your mileage may vary, but in my house, my wife appreciates me saving some money on my hobbies where I can.....

I got the timing cover all cleaned up too. Overall, I've been impressed as to how clean the motor parts are underneath the layers of oil and grime, not much corrosion to speak of. I used a couple stiff nylon brushes and some small scrapers to loosen the dirt off, along with some Gunk citrus degreaser to help facilitate the process. I kinda felt like a dentist and it took awhile, but the final product looks great. The further I get into this, the more I'm leaning towards leaving the patina and not repainting the whole engine and engine bay. I'm not planning on tearing the engine down any further, but I need to do a compression test to confirm that before I put my foot in my mouth. Probably should have done that earlier......

Before & after:

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I also got my carburetor rebuild kit from Mikes- awesome kit! Very well put together, with clear instructions and all the parts I needed, except for the float, but that is unavailable, so we'll see how it performs.

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I bought new bushings for the throttle shaft from Mike's also, I think they were like $3/each and I needed 3.
I took my time on the drill press and just bored straight through and then pressed them in. Then I used this sweet little table fro Vermont American to find the right drill bit to re-bore the new bushings to match the shaft.
https://vermontamerican.com/drill-bit-d ... ncy-chart/

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Turns out I needed a size "J" drill bit, which no one around me had, but I did find a 7mm, so I went that route. I had to do some fine tuning with a fine file on the throttle shaft and some 320 sandpaper wrapped around a smaller drill bit for the bushings. I marked up the shaft with sharpie and then slid it in and spun it around, then pulled it out and filed down the high spots till it feels like butter.

Parting shot:
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Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

Well, my rear main seal showed up Monday, so I decided to get after it right away since that's one of the key items that need to go back in first in order to reassemble this whole show. Got parts from Willys America, probably the most complete engine parts source I've found for the 230:
https://shop.willysamerica.com/OHC-230- ... s/1876.htm

I got rolling on it, my wife came out to check on me, and says "How's it going?"
So I says, "It's going, but it's more complicated than I expected and hit a couple snags."
Her: "So it's a Jeep, huh?"
Me: "Yup. Nailed it."

I got the rear filler block out and cleaned up, ready for the new seal. The upper half of the seal has apparently grown roots into the block and has refused to come out. I tried all the punches I have to no avail.

I went the next step and loosened all the main bearing caps. Still no dice.
I'm sure the crank is still being held up by the timing chain and the transmission, so I don't expect it to move much, but a little bit sure would be helpful.

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I'd really like to not have to drop the crank all together, that seems like way more work than I need for a seal, but I'm starting to think I'm running out of options.

Anybody else have any ideas on how to get that stubborn bastard out of there??? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

SJTD
Posts: 1924
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Location: Lompoc, Sunland or somewhere between

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by SJTD »

Try a screw and pulling on it. Pushing tends to expand it and make it tighter while pulling does the opposite. There's a tool for this. Basically a cable with a handle on one end and a screw on the other.

You'll prolly need it to get the new one in.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

Well, I dug around in my misc bolt box and found a couple brass wood screws, crossed my fingers and crawled back under the truck....
It worked! I had to utilize a small pry bar and a block of wood to get the right leverage, but it worked.

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After I slid the new seal back in, I re-torqued the crank bearing bolts to 90 ft-lbs (85-90 spec) and re-installed the lower filler block.
I couldn't find any answers on it, so I put a thin coat of RTV on the mating surface of the rear filler block. Was that the right call?

I'll move on to the front end of the oil pan next- I have to put the front filler block in so I can re-mount the oil pan. I need to get the oil pan back in place so that I can get some support under the oil pan which will enable me to pull the front engine plate and engine mounts.
These engine mounts are so screwy! What were they thinking?

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My plan is to get everything together and pull the timing set, engine mounts, front engine cover and then replace all of that in the same sitting so I can get the engine weight back on the engine mounts.
How concerned do I need to be about screwing up the timing when I pull the timing chain and gear? What's the best way to ensure it goes back together right?

Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

Getting ready to order some sheetmetal for the floor pans, and I've got a couple questions.

1 - So far, I've found BJ's, ZM Jeeps, and Classic 2 Current that sell pieces. Or, I could go pick up a sheet and muddle my way through myself. I can weld(ish), but I don't have a brake. Any other sources I should look at?

2 - BJ's states that the dimensions of their part is 22" x 18.5". My floors are rusty enough that one piece won't cover what I need. What's the best route to get the amount I need? Order 2 driver's side fronts and 2 passenger's side fronts, or order a front and rear (from a Waggy) for each side?
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66stepside
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Joined: Sat Oct 13, 2012 9:59 pm
Location: Spokane Valley, WA.

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by 66stepside »

offthebeatenpath wrote:
66stepside wrote:That looks like you got a good start to a blossoming addiction- welcome to the fray!
Thanks! You've got some great builds on here..... I intend to look over the 4.0/XJ swap writeup, as right now that's my #1 alternative for a prospective engine swap if this Tornado turns into a Cat 5 and scatters it's guts everywhere from hell to breakfast. I like the idea of keeping it Jeep, and I too saw that the 4.0/Dana 300 combo looked like it would work. We'll see...... Plan A is to get the Tornado spinning like one.
The 4.0 swap was one of my favorites- now, but at the time it was kind of a PITA. I’d be glad to answer questions if it comes to aswap for you. I do recommend buying a complete doner rig as it saves money in the long run.


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Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

66stepside wrote:
The 4.0 swap was one of my favorites- now, but at the time it was kind of a PITA. I’d be glad to answer questions if it comes to aswap for you. I do recommend buying a complete doner rig as it saves money in the long run.

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If I wind up going this route, the donor rig seems like the common sense way to go. I don't have a ton of room at my house, but I have enough that I could park an XJ out of the way after I pull the motor/trans out and keep it on hand for all the small stuff.

I don't know... I hope I don't have to go that far, and if I do need to, I don't really want to go down the deeeeeep rabbit hole of engine, trans, transfer case, driveshafts, axles, springs, mounts, etc, etc, etc. I don't have the time for that, and I'm quite certain, (as wonderful and supportive as my wife of 15 years is) that she doesn't have the patience for that. This was supposed to be a rolling project, and I'd like to keep it that way. I don't need yard art.

Topic author
offthebeatenpath
Posts: 42
Joined: Thu May 30, 2019 6:19 am
Location: Bozeman, Montana

Re: 1965 J200 with Tornado 230

Post by offthebeatenpath »

I had planned on doing some substantial yard work last weekend that involved borrowing a skidsteer and a couple truckloads of rock and fill and topsoil to fill in the drainage ditch in our front yard, but Thursday night the trucking company called and said their yard got swamped and they couldn't get to the fill dirt they were going to sell me for cheap. So we pushed that off for another couple weeks, and I spent a good bit of time on the truck.

I got the bottom end all buttoned back up (forgot to take pictures), but I'm sure you know what an oil pan looks like. This Tornado engine is so goofy with the engine mounts being bolted to this front engine plate instead of to the block, so I had to get the oil pan back on in order to have a solid place to support the engine so I could take the weight off the front end and pull the front engine plate and motor mounts. Here's the before and after:

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It cleaned up well, it's just a lot of elbow grease to get all the gummy crap off of it. There's just years and years of dirt caked with oil layered on everything. I'm not painting anything at this point, maybe that's a mistake. I like the patina, and there's just too much crap caked onto everything else to think about painting it all at once. We'll see. One thing at a time.

Timing cover is back on too, it kind of needs to be there to help anchor the front engine plate. The engine plate only has 8 bolts that hold it on, while the timing cover adds another 6-8 of it's 16 bolts that help secure the whole show.
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