84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

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letank
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by letank » Mon Sep 12, 2022 1:00 pm

Leaky spark plug wires , usually the boots fry because they are closer to heat, will give you quite a jolt.... even when wearing rubber gloves... Sometimes the visual is not enough!

Cheers to your good progress!
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
See Engine bits , Fuel and brake lines, Body work, Trany and TC

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devildog80
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Location: Apache Junction AZ

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Wed Oct 19, 2022 5:24 pm

Update
Replaced electric fuel pump on frame
Hooked up fuel line frame to carb with temporary rubber
Dropped rubber hose from pump to gas can sitting under the truck
Hooked up jumper cables
Hooked up timing light
Turned on key and have good fuel to carb, crank it but nothing.....then suddenly timing light flashes on and engine fires for 2-3 seconds.....then dies with no spark!
Took new ICM off and tested on Mongo228's CJ7 and works perfectly
New coil tested on my CJ5 a few weeks back
Distributor exchanged with known good one
Checked grounds and all good
All that is left to replace on ignition system is solenoid, and have new 5 terminal coming Saturday from BJ's

UUUUGGGGHHHHHH :/
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Sun Oct 23, 2022 5:20 pm

Well folks,

It finally runs WOOHOO........but now when I turn the key off, it sounds like it cuts the alternator out, rpm's go up a hair, and truck stays running for 15-20 seconds. Just as smooth as it the key was on.....UGHHHHHH!

Maybe it is so glad to be running it does not want to stop now?

There are no relays under the hood anywhere, and I do not see any under the dash, but oh my gosh, where do I go to trouble shoot this problem?

I will say, that 401 is sure thirsty. 1/4 of a gallon will let it idle in the driveway for about 20 minutes!
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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Pablo
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Location: Arizona

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by Pablo » Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:40 pm

Yay!

8-)

Are you sure you don't have something wired to battery instead of ignition in the fuse box somewhere? I would start there and then start seeing what circuits need to have power to run and see if anything is back-feeding them.

Mine does the same thing though, but that is because I have the fuel cutoff solenoid on a pull cable. :)
  • 64 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:57 pm

As many moons of frustrating wiring issues with this thing.....anything is possible that we have something wired in that should not be where it is.

Our final action was to bypass the resistor, but we had modified other wiring several different ways prior to this, and it finally caught and stayed running. Thank the stars above :)

Multiple attempts, and wiring changes, lots of time with battery cables connected, and finally so glad it runs.

Actually runs very smooth, idled right down to about 600 rpm so adjusted up to about 750 for now.

Oil pressure cold was 50 lbs, but stated by PO only 2000 miles on rebuild with paperwork dated & documented to confirm. Warm was 35 lbs.

Radiator held pressure, auto trans is pumping as we have a slight leak on rubber hose of add on trans cooler, power steering is good but wet line after running awhile, so need to address those other issues.

Fuel tank has the new parts needed and assembled, sender is good, so that will go back in soon, and can put rear driveshaft back on.

Brakes are non existent, so need to address those.

Tires are near rotted off the rims, so need tires before I can test drive, after everything else to be done......but......IT RUNS again finally after 18 years :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FjzprQNc6s
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:02 pm

And it does not "run on" like timing is off etc, it just does not shut off right away with key. More so the warmer it is.

You can turn the key off, and step on the gas and it is just like having the key on in "Run" position, about 15-20 seconds.

Probably takes that long for fuel line to get sucked dry after electric pump stops.
Pablo wrote:
Sun Oct 23, 2022 6:40 pm
Yay!

8-)

Are you sure you don't have something wired to battery instead of ignition in the fuse box somewhere? I would start there and then start seeing what circuits need to have power to run and see if anything is back-feeding them.

Mine does the same thing though, but that is because I have the fuel cutoff solenoid on a pull cable. :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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Yeller
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by Yeller » Mon Oct 24, 2022 4:43 am

Congratulations on getting it running😊

Check alternator wiring. I’m assuming it has a Delco type alternator, unplug the field wires, the plug on the alternator, and restart and see if the problem persists. Normally this issue will cause it run forever, or maybe I’ve just not ever let one run long enough, lol. My guess is the field wire is back feeding the ignition.
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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Mon Oct 24, 2022 7:47 am

It has been converted from single wire to 3 wire alternator, and that is one of the wires we have in the system, so probably correct diagnosis.

Only dies as fuel pump shuts down with key off.

Will look at that connection and report back :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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Pablo
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by Pablo » Fri Oct 28, 2022 9:55 am

Any luck?
  • 64 FSJ Wagoneer, under the knife
  • 67 FSJ Wagoneer, peacefully taking a break
  • 94 XJ, long-armed on 33's. Bolt on ghetto fab fantastic
  • 16 BU, wife's snow commuter
Formerly: 06 KJ CRD (Constantly Repair Diesel)

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devildog80
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Location: Apache Junction AZ

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Tue Nov 01, 2022 6:27 pm

Update

Figured out the run on and it was an alternator wire we had in the connections.

Corrected and now shuts off when key is turned off.

Also noticed the alternator was hot, just sitting not running with only positive battery cable connected.

Tested and determined the alternator was shot, so ordered and received new 100A alternator I will put in this week.

Reassembled fuel tank to skid plate, and ready to install it too.

Cleaned out more unneeded wiring, and tracked some other wires to make sure of their service.

Picked up some power steering pump seal reconditioner and a quart of trans fluid to top off power steering pump.

Getting close to brakes and tires, then can start moving it around under its own power.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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tgreese
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by tgreese » Sat Nov 05, 2022 1:58 pm

Have you bypassed the ammeter? Or better, replaced it with a voltmeter?
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:26 pm

Not yet, but do plan to verify if already done.

How would I know?

Other info from today-

New alternator installed, and works like a dream :)

Started the truck and gauge instantly showing charging.

Drained radiator & replaced 2 heater hoses before installing alternator, as one off the pump is tucked in behind the alternator.

Wide open without alternator so took advantage of the task.

On another note, temp gauge has not shown to work yet, so checked Haynes manual and trouble shot it.

Found out it seems to be the gauge :(

Anybody know how to refurbish stock temp gauge?
(EDIT - found OEM replacement through BJ's for about $35)

Or most just gone, and leave in for looks, then install after-market under dash?

Here is pic of instrument cluster, with just a pic of a battery, instead of AMPS like some show, so might have Volt meter?

Image20220515_161005 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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tgreese
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by tgreese » Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:17 pm

If your amp gauge moves, it's not bypassed.

I suggest a voltmeter replacement. A voltmeter works well, no danger of fire like the amps gauge.

J20voltmeter.jpg

This is my J20. Reflections, but the picture shows my installation. This is the Sunpro voltmeter you can get on Amazon for ca $15. Take the Sunpro meter apart and install in your cluster. Works well. Avoids ammeter-caused carbeque.

The temp, fuel and oil pressure gauges all use the same voltage regulator. If one of them works, you can rule out the voltage regulator, which is inside the temperature gauge.

I would strongly suggest you chuck that Haynes manual and use the TSM for your year. If you can't afford the TSM for '84, the '82 TSM is here free to read and download. https://oljeep.com/edge_parts_man.html It will be the same as the '84 TSM for most things. Look at section 1L - it will walk you through diagnosis and testing of the gauges.

Since the CVR (voltage regulator in the temp gauge) seems to work, I would not condemn the factory temp gauge until I had tested the temperature sender and wiring first. The factory parts are much higher quality than anything you will get today aftermarket, especially for electrical parts like this.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Sun Nov 06, 2022 6:54 pm

Agreed on going to TSM, and I have it downloaded from Ol Jeep. I will investigate further this week.

Finally got the gas tank back in and working, and checked sender before install, but fuel gauge not working. Put about 8 gallons of gas in it, and nothing on the gauge.

On same side as temp, so might there be an issue on left side of cluster, as oil pressure & amp gauge work great?

There is power at temp gauge, and I forgot to chek gas tank wiring & gauge before install for ohms, which I understand should read 5 ohms.

I did watch a couple video's on the install of volt meter just like yours, and fairly straightforward to swap out.

Thanks for feedback :)
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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tgreese
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by tgreese » Mon Nov 07, 2022 5:13 am

Amp gauge is powered by the charge current going through it. 100% of the charge current goes to the dash, through the ammeter, and back to the battery.

The other gauges operate on a "regulated" 5 volts that comes from the temperature gauge. If any of them work, the regulator is ok. Read the TSM. There are three parts to test, separately. Gauge, wiring, sender.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 FCA Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

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devildog80
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Location: Apache Junction AZ

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Sun Nov 13, 2022 11:44 am

Ok, pulled the cluster & verified all the gauges are good.

Verified fuel sender ohms, so that works as should.

Replacing the AMP gauge with VOLT gauge that came this week (same one tgreese used), then fixing loose lenses, refurbish housing & new bulbs, rewire Volt gauge system, and re-install.
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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devildog80
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Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Sun Nov 20, 2022 2:36 pm

Well folks,

Went through gauge cluster this weekend, and despite being very very careful the plastic breaks down to near powder.

Replaced AMP gauge with new VOLTS gauge, and again despite being very careful, had some mistakes made.

Drilled new hole and right through existing solder on circuit board......DOH!

Nothing that a little wire and solder could not fix.

But, regarding the existing plastic that everything mounts to, not much to say except now saving up for a new Dakota vintage looking gauge set.

This poor old plastic took a real beating in the AZ desert heat the past 18 years, and got no justice but alas, it must go on serving for awhile longer.

Took out the heater fan switch, Mongo228 opened it up and cleaned contacts, gave it a good once over service check, and back together again.
(yes, despite the mounting points being near gone, I was able to mount the heater controls)

A drop of WD40 on pivot pin for cold/hot temp selector, and pivots like brand new now.

One of the lens holders was melted, from hot bulb, so switched out with opposite side blank.

Had to modify something to hold the melted blank in the metal face where it mounts, so got creative with a piece of aluminum security strap and my bench vice. Nice and snug, and should outlast me, or the cluster itself.

Prepped wiring in the dash to accept the new Volt gauge, and checked new gauge on battery to be sure it works as intended.

Cleaned up the fuel & temp gauge contacts, checked wires serving those, and all checks out that they should work properly when cluster goes back in.

Glued 2 lenses back into the housing. Had to borrow a super fine tip makeup brush from my wife so not slopping glue where it was not needed. Thanks honey for the contribution to the cause :)

New bulbs and it will be ready. Looking to re-install this next weekend :)

Image20221119_142219 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Image20221119_142131 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Image20221119_133645 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Image20221119_133748 (1) by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Image20221120_134441 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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devildog80
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Location: Apache Junction AZ

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Wed Nov 23, 2022 6:24 pm

Going to install this Friday, and will report back if everything works......as I hope it does :/
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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devildog80
Posts: 508
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2022 2:41 pm
Location: Apache Junction AZ

Re: 84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

Post by devildog80 » Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:51 pm

Update

Put the gauge cluster back in, and now have temp working, but fuel still not working.

Will trouble shoot that again, and see where the problem is, as we bench tested the gauges and all worked.

Wiring to tank reads 28 ohms, and thought we had checked it all the way to plug in on back of cluster, but something still not working on fuel gauge.

Oil pressure right up there cold near 80 psi, and seems a bit high.
Not sure what oil/weight/filter as still has oil that we brought it home with, sitting 18 years and still looked clean on dip stick. Bottle in back of truck says 10-40.
Just getting it running, so running as is before making too many changes, but for sure will change before driving on the road.

Installed grounding strips, one at carpet line under dash next to park brake, and one in engine compartment on PS fender well.

Wired direct to battery ground.

Main reason was to ground new Volt meter direct to battery, but useful for stereo, lights, CB, and other switches which require ground.

Short video after cluster install-

YouTube

1984 Jeep Grand Wagoneer dash worked and reinstalled

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULM7ULvPSXA

Image11-27-2 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Image20221127_142915 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Image20221127_151219 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Image20221127_151228 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Image20221127_151328 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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