Wandering and loose steering on a GW

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Lear70
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Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Lear70 »

So I’m finally on the road after several years of tinkering when I had time on my 91 Wagoneer. The good news, the engine runs livably (I can tolerate it until it drives better), got the lift done (3” with 32” tires on factory rims with a DPA), not happy with it and I’ll need to tweak it (seems to ride higher in the front not sure why, I didn’t do it), but the big issue is drivability.

The steering is LOOSE. I can move the steering wheel 3” side to side and it barely starts to turn the wheels. This makes for pure hell on the highway. You’ll be driving fine and straight and suddenly it’ll start wandering off to the side, and you have a couple inches of dead play in the wheel going the other way then suddenly it corrects. (yes I had the alignment done after the lift, camber is 2.2 Left / 2.4 Right)

I drive an Escalade as a daily driver so I’m not expecting it to handle like a Corvette, but more than an inch of dead steering wheel movement is quite frankly unacceptable in any vehicle that is driven on a highway. Especially when the over-correction can happen fairly easily.

I’ve read here of swaps to other steering boxes, XJ’s, etc, to tighten it up, but no step-by-step guide to fixing this exact issue - is the rag joint the most common area of play once you eliminate the ball joints and tie rod end slippage? What’s the quickest, easiest way to make this drive more like a Dodge Truck instead of looking like Stevie Wonder?

Thanks,
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Stuka
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Stuka »

Surprised the alignment shop didn't note the steering play. They have always checked it when I bring a vehicle in.

What you describe is certainly not the way it should be in proper operating condition.

Few quick and easy things to check if you have another person handy.

1: With the hood open, look at the rag joint in the steering shaft just before it goes into the steering box. Have somebody wiggle the steering wheel. Check for play in the rag joint. There should be none. If there is any at all, you should replace it.

2: If the rag joint checks out, move down to the drag link. This goes from the pitman arm, to the tie rod. Again have somebody wiggle the wheel and check for play. I like to place my ringer bridging the gap between each side of the TRE to feel for any slop. Any slop here will be magnified by the time it gets to the steering wheel. Also check the pitman armor to make sure its not loose.

3: Do the same check on both TRE's for the tie rod on each knuckle.

4: Bad ball joints can cause steering issues, though not typically as you describe it. But if you want to check them, jack up on tire, and then grab the top and bottom of the tire while pulling and pushing in opposite directions. There should be zero play.

5: The last thing to check, is the spring bushings. This is a semi-common issue, but normally has a clunk sound that goes with it. With both front tires on the ground, and the engine running, have somebody turn the tire back and forth about a 1/4 of a turn in each direction. Look at the bushings at the rear eye of the front springs (just behind the front tires). Look to see if they slide back and forth. If they do, it can be resolved with some washers to make up the clearance.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
Lear70
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Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2021 2:33 pm

Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Lear70 »

Thanks, I appreciate it.

There doesn’t appear to be any play at the rag joint. The steering shaft at the U-joint upper side has no play, rag joint doesn’t appear to have any play, I took a short video of it, but the pitman arm doesn’t move at all as the steering wheel is moved 3” side to side. The shaft isn’t spinning inside the DPA, either.

It’s essentially as if the gear inside the steering box isn’t engaging the pitman arm at all until you get that much movement at the steering wheel.

I want the pitman arm to engage at about 1” of play and start moving - it’s not a race car but 3” is way too much play. Thoughts on adjustment of some type or a replacement steering box? I can rebuild an engine but I’m not a suspension guy by any means.

Thanks,
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Stuka
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Stuka »

Ahh, that sounds like wear inside the steering box then. The box does need to be removed to properly adjust it. As it involves two steps. Adjusting the shaft preload, and the gear mesh via the adjustment on top.

The TSM here has the procedure on page 19-30 (743 of the PDF): https://oljeep.com/89FSM/89Jeep_FullServiceManual.pdf
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
Lear70
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Lear70 »

Well thanks, but I’ll hunt someone in Denver who knows what they’re doing with it. It looks like a PITA to remove it since it’s probably been on there for over a quarter century and I’d rather just let someone else mess with it.

I’m starting to get too old to like the heavy maintenance. I’ll happily replace a window motor or compressor or power steering pump or do a tune up but at some point it’s just worth it to pay someone. Just wanted a good idea of what to ask for when I take it in and yes, they should have caught it during the alignment. They caught a bad right rear ball joint, surprised they didn’t notice how bad the steering was, or they didn’t want to mess with it, either.

Does the Camber sound OK without adding the wedges?
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Stuka »

Lear70 wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:13 pm Does the Camber sound OK without adding the wedges?
I am thinking those numbers are actually caster? In which case its not as good as it could be. I like to run 4-5 on my Jeeps just to give a bit more steering feel. But thats hard to get just right with leaf springs. A one degree shim might give you better on center feel, although currently you cannot feel that at all. Get the steering fixed and then see how it drives.

Camber should be near zero.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
Lear70
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Lear70 »

Yes, sorry, that’s Caster. Camber numbers were very close to zero but the Caster numbers show right at the edge of the “OK” chart.

Thanks,

Now to get a replacement steering box in, the AC compressor and lines replaced and fresh Freon, and the rear window working so I can drop the hatch.
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Stuka
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Stuka »

And oddly, the rear window will be the biggest pita of all of those :P
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
Lear70
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Lear70 »

Lol - so I’m reading, although electrical is my specialty so hopefully not so bad. Biggest question is whether it’s the motor or key switch. Sounds like fixing the key switch isn’t all that fun.

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Lear70
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Lear70 »

And amusingly the switches for the rear window both magically started working this morning... lol

The window however is jerky and sounds very dry and crunchy. What’s the easiest way to pull that rear panel and where to lubricate to restore smooth function so I don’t lose the motor or jump it off the track?

Thanks!

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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by itselliott »

Lear70 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:51 am And amusingly the switches for the rear window both magically started working this morning... lol

The window however is jerky and sounds very dry and crunchy. What’s the easiest way to pull that rear panel and where to lubricate to restore smooth function so I don’t lose the motor or jump it off the track?

Thanks!
The rear window glass sits in a little U channel that is moved up and down by an X like scissors. The glass can easily get jerked out of the U channel.
Caution is advised . There is a large panel on the tailgate to access the workings.

Topic author
Lear70
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Lear70 »

Sounds like an LPS cleanup job and some white lithium grease for starters.

Thanks!

itselliott
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by itselliott »

Lear70 wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 11:02 am Sounds like an LPS cleanup job and some white lithium grease for starters.

Thanks!
Check into these https://www.bjsoffroad.com/Inner-and-Ou ... _1572.html

Topic author
Lear70
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Re: Wandering and loose steering on a GW

Post by Lear70 »

Cool. Yeah mine suck all the way around the truck.
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