Axle Swap Help | NEWBIE!

[profbrown]

Alright, I will start this by saying I am sure it has been answered before, but I am unable to find it! I have a 68 wagoneer, stock axles, in the middle of building an LS motor. I want to get a disc brake front end that is stronger than the stock closed knuckle dana 27... I have been UNABLE to find any sort of somewhat direct swap for this front axle due to its width. From what I have found, the front axle is 59" WMS to WMS, I cannot find ANY dana 44 online through research that matches this width. What did the vets do for axle swapping these first gen wags? I am not looking to change the ride height of my rig, it has some sort of lift kit on it I have confirmed, just unknown height. Running 31x10.50x15s and it is still spring under.

I am starting to think my only option is to go with a random passenger side drop, have it narrowed and just bite the bullet. What is the consensus here? I have been able to find quite a few second gen wag axle swap pages, but I know the widths changed at one point and I am struggling. If I can, Ill also swap out the rear axle to get away from the 2 piece dana 44 set up.

[tgreese]

Not a vet, but I read a lot.

I believe you can use an open-knuckle 44 from a '74-79 Wagoneer with disk brakes and swap the 6-lug hubs to 5-lug Ford hubs. That will match your rear axle bolt pattern. Or additionally use the rear axle from the same vehicle, and go 6-lug. These may be difficult to find in centered configuration (ie Dana 20 centered output). If you mix old and new, unlikely the ratios will match - maybe. I'm sure you'll get more comments.

There's also the closed-knuckle 30 that was used 70(?)-73, which is a stronger axle than the 27, but is still a closed-knuckle type.

[profbrown]

Not a vet, but I read a lot.

I believe you can use an open-knuckle 44 from a '74-79 Wagoneer with disk brakes and swap the 6-lug hubs to 5-lug Ford hubs. That will match your rear axle bolt pattern. Or additionally use the rear axle from the same vehicle, and go 6-lug. These may be difficult to find in centered configuration (ie Dana 20 centered output). If you mix old and new, unlikely the ratios will match - maybe. I'm sure you'll get more comments.

There's also the closed-knuckle 30 that was used 70(?)-73, which is a stronger axle than the 27, but is still a closed-knuckle type.

Ok, I found a set of both axles from a 74-79 Wagoneer at the below link, listed as narrow track but the measurements seems to be wrong... also 600 an axle? Seems a little high, am I wrong?

https://jeeprecyclers.com/product/full- ... ms-to-wms/

https://jeeprecyclers.com/product/compl ... 30-spline/


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[tgreese]

AFAIK the track of the Wagoneer has not changed since introduction. If you look in the TSM for the year axles you are considering, there will be a listing of the track width. I did not look for the Wagoneer, but the CJs went to a slightly wider track when they went to open knuckles. This improves turning radius. Most cars and trucks have a slightly wider front track than rear. Not a problem.

WMS to WMS should be close but different from track width. The latter includes the wheel offset and width. Measure if you have doubts.

Yes, high. A Jeep-specific yard like that will be the most expensive place to buy. I would also check car-part.com - your random all-makes yard or pick-and-pull should be cheaper by quite a lot. Private party will be cheapest, either to buy a donor vehicle or some axles. Also possible to part-out or scrap a donor and make back some of the purchase price, to keep your cost down.

The first place I would look is in the parts forum here or at the mother ship (IFSJA.org). You could also post a WTB (want-to-buy) ad in these forums.

[Totalperfwaggy]

I’m also interested in doing this swap. Good info coming I here. Thx guys. Hopefully other guys who have performed this swap will chime in as well. There is a bunch of experience on here.


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[tgreese]

From the parts book, it looks like the 30 was introduced '71-ish. There is no pairing of the 30 with the 350 engine, only the AMC V8s and sixes.

[profbrown]

From the parts book, it looks like the 30 was introduced '71-ish. There is no pairing of the 30 with the 350 engine, only the AMC V8s and sixes.

So in the links I posted above, his axle wms to wms measurements are wrong if he’s claiming it’s a narrow track right? 61” rear and 64” front? Never seen those measurements before.


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[tgreese]

...
https://jeeprecyclers.com/product/full- ... ms-to-wms/ ...

NB this axle is offset for the Quadratrac transfer case, not centered for the Dana 20. Nearly all the Wagoneers and NT Cherokees from this era came with an automatic and the Quadratrac. A centered axle and Dana 20 was used with manual transmissions almost exclusively.

If you have the tapered (nutted) rear axle, there was a period from around 1970 through 1972 when the Wagoneer rear axle was a centered flanged 44 with 5 lugs. The flanged axles are considerably stronger than the earlier tapered axles, and would be an excellent upgrade. 1973 was a transition year, with 5 lugs and an optional Quadratrac - there were '73s with an automatic and Dana 20.

[profbrown]

...
https://jeeprecyclers.com/product/full- ... ms-to-wms/ ...

NB this axle is offset for the Quadratrac transfer case, not centered for the Dana 20. Nearly all the Wagoneers and NT Cherokees from this era came with an automatic and the Quadratrac. A centered axle and Dana 20 was used with manual transmissions almost exclusively.

If you have the tapered (nutted) rear axle, there was a period from around 1970 through 1972 when the Wagoneer rear axle was a flanged 44 with 5 lugs. The flanged axles are considerably stronger than the earlier tapered axles, and would be an excellent upgrade. 1973 was a transition year, with 5 lugs and an optional Quadratrac - there were '73s with an automatic and Dana 20.

Yeah I have the older 2 piece Dana 44 with the axle nut, not the flange. Also, mine does not have a centered pinion and I too have a Dana 20. Is the offset more aggressive on those axles than mine is now? I figured off the offset was the same it would not be an issue.


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[tgreese]

From the parts book, it looks like the 30 was introduced '71-ish. There is no pairing of the 30 with the 350 engine, only the AMC V8s and sixes.

So in the links I posted above, his axle wms to wms measurements are wrong if he’s claiming it’s a narrow track right? 61” rear and 64” front? Never seen those measurements before.


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I don't know - you're going to have to work that out. The track widths are given in the TSM. They are all the same, '74 through '79.

[tgreese]

...
https://jeeprecyclers.com/product/full- ... ms-to-wms/ ...

NB this axle is offset for the Quadratrac transfer case, not centered for the Dana 20. Nearly all the Wagoneers and NT Cherokees from this era came with an automatic and the Quadratrac. A centered axle and Dana 20 was used with manual transmissions almost exclusively.

If you have the tapered (nutted) rear axle, there was a period from around 1970 through 1972 when the Wagoneer rear axle was a flanged 44 with 5 lugs. The flanged axles are considerably stronger than the earlier tapered axles, and would be an excellent upgrade. 1973 was a transition year, with 5 lugs and an optional Quadratrac - there were '73s with an automatic and Dana 20.

Yeah I have the older 2 piece Dana 44 with the axle nut, not the flange. Also, mine does not have a centered pinion and I too have a Dana 20. Is the offset more aggressive on those axles than mine is now? I figured off the offset was the same it would not be an issue.


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Yes, I think so. Others (not me) have gone through this before, and used the offset axle with the centered output with differing results. Suggest you search for these discussions in old posts.

You should be able to estimate the offset from the picture posted with the link, and compare with your offset.

[profbrown]

NB this axle is offset for the Quadratrac transfer case, not centered for the Dana 20. Nearly all the Wagoneers and NT Cherokees from this era came with an automatic and the Quadratrac. A centered axle and Dana 20 was used with manual transmissions almost exclusively.

If you have the tapered (nutted) rear axle, there was a period from around 1970 through 1972 when the Wagoneer rear axle was a flanged 44 with 5 lugs. The flanged axles are considerably stronger than the earlier tapered axles, and would be an excellent upgrade. 1973 was a transition year, with 5 lugs and an optional Quadratrac - there were '73s with an automatic and Dana 20.

Yeah I have the older 2 piece Dana 44 with the axle nut, not the flange. Also, mine does not have a centered pinion and I too have a Dana 20. Is the offset more aggressive on those axles than mine is now? I figured off the offset was the same it would not be an issue.


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Yes, I think so. Others (not me) have gone through this before, and used the offset axle with the centered output with differing results. Suggest you search for these discussions in old posts.

You should be able to estimate the offset from the picture posted with the link, and compare with your offset.

That is what I was thinking too. I know having an offset now, the Dana 20 must be fine with the non centered output


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[Totalperfwaggy]

My 1970 has the Dana 20 with pass offset front as well with Dana 44 in the rear. I have the Buick 350 with th400. Just for continuity sake. I think we have the very same setup.

[profbrown]

My 1970 has the Dana 20 with pass offset front as well with Dana 44 in the rear. I have the Buick 350 with th400. Just for continuity sake. I think we have the very same setup.

Sounds identical to what my set up was at one point in time when it was stock. Has since had the trans swapped to a 700r4 and had a sbc when I bought it, I am now building an ls for it. Another reason this Dana 27 has gotta go lol


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[Totalperfwaggy]

My 1970 has the Dana 20 with pass offset front as well with Dana 44 in the rear. I have the Buick 350 with th400. Just for continuity sake. I think we have the very same setup.

Sounds identical to what my set up was at one point in time when it was stock. Has since had the trans swapped to a 700r4 and had a sbc when I bought it, I am now building an ls for it. Another reason this Dana 27 has gotta go lol


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I find myself going down that same path. Currently searching for a 5.3 LS for a swap. Hence the disk brake swap with the superior Dana 44 axle. I actually want to stop and have better steering. Until then though it’s Buick and Th400.

Are you keeping the 700r4 or switching to the 4l60? No real reason to swap I suppose.

[profbrown]

Keeping 700r4. If you plan to go overdrive keep in mind the need for an adaptor set up.


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[Totalperfwaggy]

Keeping 700r4. If you plan to go overdrive keep in mind the need for an adaptor set up.


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Definitely going to an overdrive. I can’t think of anything better than the LS with an overdrive. Did you use a Novak kit For your Dana 20 adapter?

[profbrown]

Keeping 700r4. If you plan to go overdrive keep in mind the need for an adaptor set up.


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Definitely going to an overdrive. I can’t think of anything better than the LS with an overdrive. Did you use a Novak kit For your Dana 20 adapter?

The 700r4 was out in before I got the Jeep. When I was under there recently I did not see a logo so I dont know what adaptor is in there for sure.


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