Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

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[ O o \\|// o O ]
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Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by [ O o \\|// o O ] »

Friday I’m taking the Wagoneer to a local hot rod and customs shop to have the owner mark out the cut lines for a crew cab conversion.

I’ve done very little welding any no body work to speak of. If you have experience you’d be willing to share I’d appreciate it, especially detailed photos of the fit up required for sheet metal.

I like the looks of the square rear door corners that most conversions have but I’m going to do it the Aussie way. Leaving Wagoneer rear doors and using the gained space for storage.

I think I can do it using only the sheet metal from my Wagoneer and maybe a few square feet of new sheet metal to finish the back and make the storage compartment doors.

Here are the conversions that most influenced my design choices:

I'm basically going with the Australian style conversions because they don't modify the doors and they basically use a Wagoneer roof.
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I want to keep the roll down window feature in the truck. I don't know if this window is functional but it looks like it could be.

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Here’s a conversion that's typical of what Creative Conversion of Australia produces. The storage space created in the wheel wells isn’t much in these smaller rigs.

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If you look at the void left when you chop up a Wagoneer it could be a sizable storage space. The mail box shaped lines I’ve drawn here are approximately the size of the compartment I should have when I'm finished.
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I drew in a door on this conversion and they should be a pretty decent storage bins.
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This isn’t my Wagoneer but I needed the interior picture to demonstrate where I’m moving sheetmetal.
I’m going to use the window regulator so I’ll use the tailgate sheet metal and access panel for the interior wall of the cab.

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The floor will need to be cut long because the rear of the cab will be double walled to conceal the window mechanism.
The tabs will be cut even longer than the floor. I’m thinking I’ll be able to bend them up to allow easier fitment and welding to the rear wall.
I’m afraid I might have to notch some of the lower corners of the access panel to clear the wheel wells.
The interior skin of the tailgate will come forward to the yellow line.
It'll probably have to go farther toward the rear to clear my roll cage.

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Please ignore my lack of Photoshop skills but this is kind of where it should end up.

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The D pillars will come forward and get tilted to achieve a vertical window with the least amount of slope possible on the back of the cab.

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Since I’m not cutting up a truck to get the back of the cab I’m going to use what’s left of the floor. The end nearest the tailgate has a flat panel welded to it so I’ll put that at the bottom of the cab to shed water. It won’t look factory but it’ll look pretty good I think.

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I think I know how to tie the corrugated floor panel into what will be left of the exterior of the tailgate but it’s going to be more angular than the factory stamping that’s for sure.

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This one’s mine and here’s where I think I’ll end up cutting it.
The red is where I’ll cut and the green arrows show where I plan to move things.
I'll need to leave a little extra for trimming and rounding the corners to match the back of the cab.

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Here’s what I’d like to end up with.

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This cab should be pretty close to what I’ll end up with but I’m doing a flatbed not a box.
I don’t want the small window this cab has but mine will be almost the same length because I need to clear my roll cage.

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I hate to lose the propane filler I built into the original spot but I haven’t figured out how to reuse it.
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Here’s what I looked like when I bought it.

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Here’s how it looks now.

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Here’s how far back the rear hoop sits.

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Just for kicks here’s the roll cage before we installed it.

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I’m sure it’ll bother some people that I’m cutting up such a Clean Wagoneer but the finished truck will be worth it.
My cousin is going to help me with this project, wish us luck!

Austin4x4
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by Austin4x4 »

well it looks like you have a good plan all set ahead. i learned lots of thing the hard way when i did mine so please feel free to ask me any specific questions that you have. one thing to consider is to make shure you leave enough room behind the rear doors for seats and legroom i have the wagoneer doors meeting up with the back of atruck cab. one problem i found is that the weather seall position is farther inward on the wagoneer cab, i hade to move the seal out for it to be nice at tight. with having a storage compartment insted of squared off doors is that it may be hard to fit a rear seat in there. a wagoneer has a kick up in the floor where the truck does not. also withe cuting the wagoneer cab off there you may loose some of the structure that keeps the cab strong. one member on ifsja did it the way you plan to i'll see if i can fing his thread. there is alot of info in my thread on ifsja. here are some photos of how i cut my cab.
Image

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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by [ O o \\|// o O ] »

Thanks for posting Austin4x4. Your build would be nearly impossible for me. If I mess mine up I can always weld a flat piece of sheet metal over the back and still have something to drive. I saw the buttercup build and I'm familiar with daJeeps build, in fact I drove down to Vancouver to see the truck after he welded it all back together. I've seen a few done the way I'm planning to do mine but never a build thread. I appreciate your offer and I'm sure I'll have a ton of questions for you before I'm done with this.
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by Stuka »

I know, not what you want to hear. But I cannot believe you are cutting up such a pristine wagoneer when there are so many junkers out there. I would kill (well, maybe not quite) for a wagoneer of that year that is as nice as the photo of "when I bought it". I mean, the rockers have no rust!!

Austin4x4 has the most experience of anybody here regarding crew cab conversions, as he actually has one.
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by AwesomeJ10 »

X2 on not cutting up such a nice one!

bigun
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by bigun »

Blake wrote:X2 on not cutting up such a nice one!
X3

FSJ Guy
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by FSJ Guy »

[ O o \|// o O ] wrote:Thanks for posting Austin4x4. Your build would be nearly impossible for me. If I mess mine up I can always weld a flat piece of sheet metal over the back and still have something to drive. I saw the buttercup build and I'm familiar with daJeeps build, in fact I drove down to Vancouver to see the truck after he welded it all back together. I've seen a few done the way I'm planning to do mine but never a build thread. I appreciate your offer and I'm sure I'll have a ton of questions for you before I'm done with this.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but if Austin's build is too complicated, perhaps you are in over your head. He has actually DONE one and knows what needs to be done and how it's done. You may want to consider farming out the body work and completing the rest on your own.

Or, start with a less-pristine FSJ so if you screw it up, you won't be banging your head in regret. ;)
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Jeepless, but I still have a lots of old parts in my garage!
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by [ O o \\|// o O ] »

I had '72 Blazer that was in better shape than my Wagoneer. I wanted to build the K5 into a self contained camping rig but couldn't bring myself to hack into such a nice truck. I sold it on ebay for $5,000. The buyer flew from LA to Richland, WA and towed it home with a uhaul truck and dolly. $5K for a "K5" with a dead motor! I thought that was kind of funny.

Then we bought my wife a new car. She said, "It's the car of my dreams." I thought to myself, "Self, I'm getting the car of my dreams too." So I went to check on the Wagoneer.

I had driven past this Wagoneer for almost two years, it sat there all day long with For Sale signs in the windows. The owner of a gas station/garage had been pushing it out of the garage every morning and back in every night all that time. He said he didn't want to start it because so much engine wear takes place in the first few seconds an engine starts. His wife had inherited it from her grandfather, the original owner, but didn't want it. It was as clean inside as it was outside so I bought it.

When I got the itch to build a crew cab of course I didn't want to cut it up. I tried to sell it locally and on ebay. Didn't get a call or a bid on the Wagoneer.

The high bidder on the Blazer said he really appreciated the stock condition of the truck and made it sound like he was going to keep it stock. He paid me and loaded it then he explained that he and his kid were going to build it to run at an off road park and about all the mods they had planned for it. Including a built motor out of his kids totaled Camaro. He was going to cut it up way worse than I was. I just wanted a mild expedition/camping rig. I've regretted not building it for my family ever since.

This time...No regrets.
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by [ O o \\|// o O ] »

FSJ Guy wrote:
[ O o \|// o O ] wrote:Thanks for posting Austin4x4. Your build would be nearly impossible for me. If I mess mine up I can always weld a flat piece of sheet metal over the back and still have something to drive. I saw the buttercup build and I'm familiar with daJeeps build, in fact I drove down to Vancouver to see the truck after he welded it all back together. I've seen a few done the way I'm planning to do mine but never a build thread. I appreciate your offer and I'm sure I'll have a ton of questions for you before I'm done with this.
I'm not trying to rain on your parade, but if Austin's build is too complicated, perhaps you are in over your head. He has actually DONE one and knows what needs to be done and how it's done. You may want to consider farming out the body work and completing the rest on your own.

Or, start with a less-pristine FSJ so if you screw it up, you won't be banging your head in regret. ;)

I'll end up with four doors but other than that our projects are almost completely different. Most of my work will be on the back wall of the cab where most of his work was in the floor, door frames, and roof. I'm avoiding almost all of this. The alignment of so many sections running the full length of the cab and getting the door openings returned to the correct length were the issues I wouldn't want to tackle. I'd never attempt his project in my carport. I'm not doing even a third of the work he did and I plan on farming out the most complex of it. Since I'm not using a truck cab I'll get a bid for tying the sides and back together. I don't have a problem cutting or welding but I don't want to do the bending work. Simple curves I'd do but the compound curves required I'm not messing with.
Last edited by [ O o \\|// o O ] on Thu Apr 11, 2013 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

FSJ Guy
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by FSJ Guy »

Gotcha!! Now I understand.
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Jeepless, but I still have a lots of old parts in my garage!

RamJetFSJ
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by RamJetFSJ »

Sorry to hijack, but where did you get your cage, and do you have more photos if it posted somewhere?

By the way, I like your concept and plan (of using the rear roll down window), have thought of doing something similar myself, but I think its going to be a ton of work and hard to pull off cleanly. Good luck and I hope you succeed and post lots of pics!
80 Wag in 73 attire, Ram Jet 350 power
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by [ O o \\|// o O ] »

[quote="RamJetFSJ"]Sorry to hijack, but where did you get your cage, and do you have more photos if it posted somewhere?

Built it with a buddy, here are some pics...http://s189.photobucket.com/user/amberi ... t=3&page=1

That's the short sweet answer, here's the real deal.

I gave up on ever finding a prebent cage kit. So, I bought a bender, a bending program, some DOM tubing, and got busy.
When you look at the cage, notice how close the lines of the cage follow the lines of the A pillars, from the front and the side. The software gave exact specs if we fed it the correct measurements. The 3D software is worth the money! Takes a lot longer than 2D layups but the finished products looks so much better. The B pillar hoop tilts forward a bit because I cut the upper spreaders a little short. The software spit out specs for a perfect 3D hoop, the fail was all me.
I don't have the cage info here at the house but I can get it if you want it. It'll give you all the lengths, angles and degrees of rotation to reproduce my cage.(The measurements are for the regulation 2" tubing so they won't work for the smaller tubing everyone seems to want to use, sorry.) I don't like where the front hoop meets the floor but that was the best spot to cut through to tie into the frame.
Mine is built to SCORE specs so it's larger/stronger/more expensive than most people want to build. For this weight of vehicle SCORE requires 2"x .120 wall ChroMo or DOM. (CR33 Roll Cages..."Over 4000 lbs. - 2.000” x 0.120” CDN/4130/Seamless or ASTM 1018/1026 CDS/DOM")
I just got a camera to document my crew cab conversion so if you want a few pictures of specific areas let me know and I'll get them to you.
If you bend DOM buy the hydraulic power kit for the bender. DOM is easily twice as tough to bend as mild steel and once over bent it's almost impossible to back off a half a degree like you can with mild steel. Anyone who tells you mild steel is just as tough as DOM has never bent up a cage by hand!
Here're the links to the stuff I used to build mine.

http://www.bend-tech.com/bt_ez3d.htm
http://www.jd2.com/p-32-model-3-bender.aspx
http://score-international.com/rulebook ... d=19309216

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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by Dirtmonkey »

I have to throw in also on not cutting up such a good body. There's thousands of them out there with beat up bodies to cut up. If you've got the urge to sawzall one, let it be the one that isn't going to be easily repairable, and let the pristine one go to someone looking for a clean stocker.

RamJetFSJ
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by RamJetFSJ »

Thanks for the info and pictures on the cage. Looks good!
80 Wag in 73 attire, Ram Jet 350 power
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by [ O o \\|// o O ] »

RamJetFSJ wrote:Thanks for the info and pictures on the cage. Looks good!
You're welcome. I'm really happy with how the cage turned out. I saw a wreck on the way home from work one night. Parked the Wagoneer and carpooled with my wife until I got it done. Older cars just don't have the structural integrity of newer cars. I think it was time and money well spent.

billygoat
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by billygoat »

I am with the don't do it to one that nice, what year is that? (early) I know.
Do a full restore on it, and find a newer rusty one to make a crew cab out of.

First thing you need to do is go get a couple junk yard fenders, cut them in 2 and weld them back together, then do it again on another set, do it until you can make it look good with only a little body cheese. Trust me welding sheetmetal is a discipline, it is thin, burns thru easy, and warps easy.
Body work in general is very time consuming, and take patience to do it correctly.
And yes I know my body lines all don't line up...

Of course you will have mostly the corners to deal with, which are easier, dealing with the wheel wells may not be. X2 on the rear leg room, I just got a 3rd row minvan seat that gives me some leg room in the back seat of my extended cab, but still not great for an adult on a long trip, pass front bucket seat forward enough for the rear pass to have room crowds both if they are over 5-10 or so. Is it more of a 2+2 set up (2 adults + 2 kids) and my dogs like the front seats close so they can lean on them - lol
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by [ O o \\|// o O ] »

billygoat wrote:I am with the don't do it to one that nice, what year is that? (early) I know.
Do a full restore on it, and find a newer rusty one to make a crew cab out of.

First thing you need to do is go get a couple junk yard fenders, cut them in 2 and weld them back together, then do it again on another set, do it until you can make it look good with only a little body cheese. Trust me welding sheetmetal is a discipline, it is thin, burns thru easy, and warps easy.
Body work in general is very time consuming, and take patience to do it correctly.
And yes I know my body lines all don't line up...

Of course you will have mostly the corners to deal with, which are easier, dealing with the wheel wells may not be. X2 on the rear leg room, I just got a 3rd row minvan seat that gives me some leg room in the back seat of my extended cab, but still not great for an adult on a long trip, pass front bucket seat forward enough for the rear pass to have room crowds both if they are over 5-10 or so. Is it more of a 2+2 set up (2 adults + 2 kids) and my dogs like the front seats close so they can lean on them - lol
It's a '72. I'll have plenty of scraps to practice on, dajeeps gave me some scraps I can use for practice too. I'll let my cousin do the welding on this project, it's too important that it's done right for me to do any of it. I'm sure it'll be especially time consuming since this is my first body job and it's a major reconfiguration. My cousin pointed out a huge flaw in my design that is part of having patience to do it correctly. I bet I've got hundreds of hours into planning this. Having fresh eyes to review it before I start is helpful. My plan is to leave the factory seat spacing in tack. I'm leaving plenty of room behing the rear seat for future changes too. I read your thread and wonder how you like the clam shell doors? I had an FJ Cruiser for a couple of years and hated them. I thought they were such a great idea but the rear doors were too small to easily access the back seat. Yours look like they offer a little better entry.

billygoat
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Re: Crew Cab Conversion Advice Wanted, Thanks in Advance

Post by billygoat »

Thanks, I like mu clam shell door, even if I made the cab longer to get more leg room, I would keep the doors as is, they open almost 90 deg, and when doing the interior it is great not having a B pillar to fight seats around. Really the only part that was a pain was getting both latches in sync, if I did it again, I would use late model car door latches in stead of the FSJ ones
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