no spark no start...

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Sstgore
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:24 pm
Location: Fort meade

no spark no start...

Post by Sstgore »

Here is the situation.
I go out to start the truck and she keeps turning but does not start.
I just replaced my starter relay and my ignition coil...
Now when it's nice and cold and she has sat she seems to not want to start. I'll crank and crank and then when I turn the key to the off position she makes some noise and dies... (By make noise I mean try's to start) so then I will turn the key again and she will sometimes start and most times will not start... I'm confused and cannot find any topics that have hit my particular problem... If anyone knows what I'm talking about any help would be appreciated...

With key on I have power to coil but while trying to start I get no spark from the coil... I feel the answer is smacking me in the face I'm just to irritated to see it...
I don't know what it's called but I can fix it.
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Gumby
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Re: no spark no start...

Post by Gumby »

Try to put your old coil on and see if that is the problem.
1984 GW 360/727/208.... 4"/ 31"
2004 CRD QC SRW 3500 4X4 (DD)
1983 "project Dubya" (long term)

Topic author
Sstgore
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:24 pm
Location: Fort meade

Re: no spark no start...

Post by Sstgore »

Just hooked up the old coil and no love... I'm charging the battery right now to make sure I have a good charge before I start into this... So I will just stop what I'm doing and try on a perfect charge


Battery is not dead just did a lot of cranking yesterday.
I don't know what it's called but I can fix it.
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tgreese
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Re: no spark no start...

Post by tgreese »

Year, model, equipment?
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

Topic author
Sstgore
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:24 pm
Location: Fort meade

Re: no spark no start...

Post by Sstgore »

:oops: 90 grand wagoneer

All stock

Just went out with charged battery and still couldn't start. Not getting spark from the accel coil I just bought 2 days ago... But it's getting power with key on but no power while cranking... Is the coil connected to the starter relay? My wires are covered so I'm having trouble following them back to the beginning.
I don't know what it's called but I can fix it.

Topic author
Sstgore
Posts: 13
Joined: Mon Jan 19, 2015 8:24 pm
Location: Fort meade

Re: no spark no start...

Post by Sstgore »

Here is another weird thing... It just started... Over and over and over.... I'm so confused right now...
I don't know what it's called but I can fix it.
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Gumby
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Location: Tucson, AZ

Re: no spark no start...

Post by Gumby »

Check the ground on the relay. Might be loose.
1984 GW 360/727/208.... 4"/ 31"
2004 CRD QC SRW 3500 4X4 (DD)
1983 "project Dubya" (long term)
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ghcoe
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Re: no spark no start...

Post by ghcoe »

If it has the motorcraft module it could be faulting in the starting circuit. You might have damaged it when doing the coil swap.
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Bagusjeep
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Re: no spark no start...

Post by Bagusjeep »

You have to tell us what ignition you have and on what engine.

When you try and start and let go the key does it momentarily kick? If so it is because of a fault on the negative side of the coil.

The coil is energised but it needs to be grounded to collapse the field and generate the spark. At the moment you are doing that with the key only.

If a Motorcraft module the test is very simple. Hook a test light up to the light green wire after you disconnect it from the coil negative, the other end going to the battery positive. The test bulb should blink whilst you swing the engine. If it does not it is because the wiring or module is not correct.

Same goes for points. If the points do not open there will be no spark.
Bagusjeep lives in Bali, Land of Temples

Gladys 1981 J20 258ci custom extended cab (3' extension) 33" M/T T18 NP208 slowly being rebuilt to an expedition truck for the family
Bagusjeep 1981 CJ7 258ci - surf jeep
Jeepputhi 1984 CJ7 258ci - dog carrier fitted with Landcruiser axles and YJ tub
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letank
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Re: no spark no start...

Post by letank »

The module usually fails when warm -after driving around-

Could be the ignition switch contacts, poor contact, and no ignition, sometimes when the key is released, there is enough of a ignition contact to start the engine -meaning powering the coil- You can try to wire temporarily a plus from battery to coil, then try to start, but remember to disconnect that wire, the coil does not like to receive full voltage, which is 14.4 volts when the engine is running.

As said , poor ground, of the motorcraft unit on the driver's side fender, is listed as a usual culprit. you can run a ground wire from battery to base of distributor, but I can't remember where the module is getting its ground.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)

Bagusjeep
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Re: no spark no start...

Post by Bagusjeep »

The Motorcraft module is grounded through the base of the distributor. There is a 3 way wire that goes from the module to the distributor, 2 are the sesnor wires and the black one is the ground. It is a poor system as the distributor is not necessarily grounded and some owners add a ground wire at the module connector and take it off to a better ground.

However it is only one of the possible issues with a Motorcraft system, if that is what the PO has.
Bagusjeep lives in Bali, Land of Temples

Gladys 1981 J20 258ci custom extended cab (3' extension) 33" M/T T18 NP208 slowly being rebuilt to an expedition truck for the family
Bagusjeep 1981 CJ7 258ci - surf jeep
Jeepputhi 1984 CJ7 258ci - dog carrier fitted with Landcruiser axles and YJ tub
Cherokee 1995 XJ Cherokee 4.0HO AW4 Limited for long distances
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ghcoe
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Re: no spark no start...

Post by ghcoe »

letank wrote:The module usually fails when warm -after driving around- .
That is true for a run issue, but not correct for a start issue. Motorcraft modules have a start circuit that retards ignition for easier starting. It is energized by the ignition switch in the start position. If it fails you will not have spark to the coil while you are trying to start the vehicle.
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: no spark no start...

Post by Tatsadasayago »

That short ignition 'Bump' when letting go of the key sure sounds like a ballast resistor or ignition switch to me...

Occam's Razor Paraphrased: With several possible causes, look to the simplest one as it is likely it.
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letank
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Re: no spark no start, I joined the club

Post by letank »

ghcoe wrote:
letank wrote:The module usually fails when warm -after driving around- .
That is true for a run issue, but not correct for a start issue. Motorcraft modules have a start circuit that retards ignition for easier starting. It is energized by the ignition switch in the start position. If it fails you will not have spark to the coil while you are trying to start the vehicle.
Updating this old post because it was the one given when doing a search, so it may help others

It is so true.... it was time to move because of street cleaning... crank but no start... aaaaack... so I sprayed some starting fluid down the carb: no start... checked for spark with the timing light: no spark... the coil is old, it is the oem, ... I knew that some of the ignition wires were taped and brittle but the engine has started without any troubles for the last 18 months, this is the camshaft rescue 86 Gwag. I had to go to other venues, so left the hood up and put a sign to thank the meter enforcement people not to ticket me ($82 is the current fee)

No ticket... this july 86 has an 87 wire color scheme and some redundancy in the wiring, probably due to a fire... worked on the wiring, checked that module was getting voltage and that distro had proper resistance of 600 to 800 ohms on orange purple wire, installed spare coil: no start, swapped module: START, success... pffff

As a note I tried to retard the distro by about 5 degrees, and do some wiring bypass without success.
The failed module was no brand module, the grommet is rather purple than blue... the swaped module is a motorcraft junkyard find from a 89 Gwag with less than 120Kmiles

Post edit, found this more recent post with test help tricks, not the same key words

viewtopic.php?t=14889
Last edited by letank on Fri Aug 23, 2019 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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tgreese
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Location: Medford MA USA

Re: no spark no start...

Post by tgreese »

Supposedly the GM HEI modules are more reliable than the replacement Duraspark modules. Both operate on the same electrical principle and are interchangeable. You can use a GM module with a Duraspark distributor - search for "stealth HEI."

https://web.archive.org/web/20181005022 ... HEI01.html
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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ghcoe
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Location: SW Idaho

Re: no spark no start...

Post by ghcoe »

tgreese wrote:Supposedly the GM HEI modules are more reliable than the replacement Duraspark modules. Both operate on the same electrical principle and are interchangeable. You can use a GM module with a Duraspark distributor - search for "stealth HEI."

https://web.archive.org/web/20181005022 ... HEI01.html
That is what I am using. The modules are super cheep. I carry two with me. I also use the motorcraft "big cap" for a bit better spark control.
SW Idaho Overlanding Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SWIdahoOverlan ... page_panel
SW Idaho Overlanding Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYuRx2 ... wVwZJ5oztg
1977 Jeep Cherokee WT
All-Terrain T/A® KO2
Safari Kit
Factory Brush Guard
Factory Tire Carrier
Custom Roof Rack

MReno
Posts: 158
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Re: no spark no start...

Post by MReno »

I had a similar issue, and it was my Electronic Ignition Control Module that was bad. Removed it, have it tested at Auto Zone (failed test), replaced it ($75), and BOOM, she fires right up.
1989 Jeep Grand Wagoneer
Newbee to owing an old classic that needs some work, but she runs!

letank
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Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: no spark no start...

Post by letank »

Thank you for the hint, I will go and have it tested at the local parts place...
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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