quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

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marc
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quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by marc »

As the starter on the 84 j10 spins but does not engage, suspect that I am in for a new starter. O'Rielly's has rebuilts but I gather that some folks have had problems with short nose cones on rebuilts. O'Rielly's reviews on their own site are mixed. Maybe the problems are only on the 360? What are your thoughts about rebuilt starters? BJs has a "high torque" starter but is it wise to put a high torque starter on an old motor? I can look around for a local rebuilder but I bet they are a rare thing. On the other hand, I found a guy whose rebuilds older carbs so maybe there is a an electrical version of him somewhere. Thanks, Marc
J10 1984, very stock with AMC 258.
Truck appears to have been rebuilt or restored at one time
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Stuka
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by Stuka »

Most of the "high torque" starters actually use smaller motors with gear reduction. Not sure if thats the case for BJs without looking.

I have gotten every starter I have ever bought from Napa. The 258 starter is very common, as it was used in lots of other engines (its a Ford starter).

EDIT: Looked at BJs. Its a mini starter with gear reduction. Nice unit, but lot more money than an OEM style.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ

Topic author
marc
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by marc »

those NAPA starters have been reliable and did require not return/reinstallation for faulty operation?
J10 1984, very stock with AMC 258.
Truck appears to have been rebuilt or restored at one time
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Stuka
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by Stuka »

marc wrote: Tue Jul 26, 2022 10:43 pm those NAPA starters have been reliable and did require not return/reinstallation for faulty operation?
Nope. Though its been a few years since I last needed to buy one. So, things can change. But I would buy a Napa part over an O'Riellys or AutoZone any day.
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Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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tgreese
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by tgreese »

The new-style starters are permanent magnet motors that spin faster and are geared down to turn the engine. Motor technology has advanced a lot since 1984; look at battery powered tools today which did not exist in 1984. These tools result from great advances both in motors (magnets) and batteries.

If there were a geared starter for my engine and it were not outrageously more expensive, I'd go with the geared starter. They just work better.

BJ's is a great resource, but there is a full page of replacement starters for the 258 at Summit Racing. Worth a look.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
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devildog80
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by devildog80 »

Before you go tearing into the starter, check your solenoid & battery connections, as they can corrode resulting in voltage drops.

This will give you the same symptom as a bad starter!
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

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marc
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by marc »

solenoid passed the tests in the tsm, good conductivity between solenoid terminal to starter terminal and battery connections test good. I think I will switch the solenoid for an old working to be sure. I had hoped it was the solenoid.
J10 1984, very stock with AMC 258.
Truck appears to have been rebuilt or restored at one time
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tgreese
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by tgreese »

Back in the day, you would have repaired the starter if it was broken. No cheap rebuilds available.
starter (600 x 527).jpg
Put the starter motor on the garage floor and test it with your jumper cables. Two bolts and your superstrength.

Note that there is an excellent chapter in your TSM about the starting system. You can use the '82 manual for this - it's the same. Flow charts take you through diagnosis and testing. Use the TSM. Don't dick around with trying this and that. Be systematic, and figure it out.
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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devildog80
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by devildog80 »

Not saying the solenoid itself is the issue, but the actual battery/starter cable connections.

These can corrode under the washer/nut, and a simple removal & cleaning of those connections, can revive the voltage back to full strength.

Just went through this with my '84 GW!
'81 CJ5 Base, 258 I6, MC2100, T176 4 spd, 300 TC, D30 Front NT, 3.31, 2-Piece AMC 20 rear NT, 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
'84 Grand Wagoneer, 401 V8 (.030 over), MC2150 HA Comp, 727 auto, Selec-trac NP229, AMC 20 REAR - D44 FRONT - WT 3.31, 4" high arc spring lift
Rather be driving, than waiting to be modified

Topic author
marc
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by marc »

Friends, I suspected the cable but it shows 0 ohms between the lug of the starter and the lug of the solenoid. Plus the solenoid passed the TSM tests. I think I will replace the starter then dissect the old one when I have the time.
J10 1984, very stock with AMC 258.
Truck appears to have been rebuilt or restored at one time
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Stuka
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by Stuka »

A battery cable can show zero ohms but still be bad when it comes to trying to shove a few hundred amps through it. If the copper has "green death", it should be replaced. Which is to say, each strand has green corrosion on it.
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bigun
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by bigun »

tgreese wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:20 pm Back in the day, you would have repaired the starter if it was broken. No cheap rebuilds available.

starter (600 x 527).jpg

Put the starter motor on the garage floor and test it with your jumper cables. Two bolts and your superstrength.

Note that there is an excellent chapter in your TSM about the starting system. You can use the '82 manual for this - it's the same. Flow charts take you through diagnosis and testing. Use the TSM. Don't dick around with trying this and that. Be systematic, and figure it out.
As long as the basic starter is okay; Stator and rotor not burned up, replacing brushes, Bendix gear or the bushing isn't that hard. We just got used to being able to walk into the auto parts store drop some money on the counter and walk out with one that has a pretty paint job that may or may not have been done correctly. When they pay the person pennies to rebuild them that is why they can give you a lifetime warranty.
Generally at least I have found the culprit is the gear is worn, pull the nose off, take off the clip pull the gear and replace. Go ahead and replace the front bushing it being worn is generally why the gear is gone bad
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tgreese
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by tgreese »

bigun wrote: Thu Jul 28, 2022 9:51 am
tgreese wrote: Wed Jul 27, 2022 3:20 pm Back in the day, you would have repaired the starter if it was broken. No cheap rebuilds available.

starter (600 x 527).jpg

Put the starter motor on the garage floor and test it with your jumper cables. Two bolts and your superstrength.

Note that there is an excellent chapter in your TSM about the starting system. You can use the '82 manual for this - it's the same. Flow charts take you through diagnosis and testing. Use the TSM. Don't dick around with trying this and that. Be systematic, and figure it out.
As long as the basic starter is okay; Stator and rotor not burned up, replacing brushes, Bendix gear or the bushing isn't that hard. We just got used to being able to walk into the auto parts store drop some money on the counter and walk out with one that has a pretty paint job that may or may not have been done correctly. When they pay the person pennies to rebuild them that is why they can give you a lifetime warranty.
Generally at least I have found the culprit is the gear is worn, pull the nose off, take off the clip pull the gear and replace. Go ahead and replace the front bushing it being worn is generally why the gear is gone bad
Yes, but you missed the point. You need special equipment (a growler - described in the TSM) to test for shorts or open poles in the armature. These days, cheap import parts (complete starters) make the time and testing needed for that approach ... impractical. Just condemn the starter and buy a new one.

With electrical, diagnosis is the hard part. Anybody can buy and replace parts. And yakking with your online friends, beyond a very basic level, won't help. Work the problem.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

letank
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Re: quality of rebuilt starters for the 258

Post by letank »

I would buy 2... and do a test drive... they always fail at the worst time, on a trail in Ouray, or in the middle of nowhere at 7am
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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