Bellcrank source?

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Phils67
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Bellcrank source?

Post by Phils67 »

Does anyone know of a company that sells replacement bellcrank setups for these trucks? I want to revert back to the original bellcrank style system and ditch the poorly operating hydraulic setup I have currently installed. And before anyone starts telling me the benefits of hydraulic over mechanical and blah blah blah, I do not want to hear it. I have my reasons and want my truck setup how I want it. I am just looking for a source for all of the original type parts, I do not currently have any of them. Looking for a complete setup with brackets, everything between the pedal and clutch fork. Thanks in advance
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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tgreese
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by tgreese »

Where are you located? I would expect to look for used parts. I would not reasonably expect parts support for anything but the usual service parts and the drivetrain. There is Jake's in NC, and Montana Overland near Missoula. These are exclusively FSJ, and there are Jeep-only yards like J&W near Sacramento. There have to be other Jeep yards that I'm less familiar with. Check with the local 4x4 forums and clubs in your area.

There's the WTB forum here and at IFSJA - maybe someone has them discarded from their build, or is parting out a similar truck.

You could look at the parts book at the Tom Collins site, pick out the pieces that you need, and search for their Jeep part numbers. Likely you won't find anything other than the wearable parts the linkage shares with CJs.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
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Phils67
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Phils67 »

I'm in NY, in the Catskills. There's nothing around here that I know of. I was hoping for new replacement parts
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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tgreese
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by tgreese »

Sorry, I think you are dreaming, unless you find a stash of Jeep NOS. There's just no market. I expect these parts were never made as aftermarket. And even then, for NOS to cover everything you need seems even more remote.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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Phils67
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Phils67 »

I may be, didn't know if maybe omix-ada or crown or someone made them, I know they still make them for older willys but believe they're different on our trucks
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Stuka
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Stuka »

Pretty much everybody converts them to Saginaw steering. The bellcrank has very vague steering because of all the joints.

What isn't working well with your current steering?
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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Phils67
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Phils67 »

Clutch release bellcrank I'm referring to Stuka, my steering is fine. I want to go back to the original manual clutch I'm saying.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Phils67 »

I know BJs has some of the small parts but they're for 74 and up years. I basically need an entire setup
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Stuka
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Stuka »

Phils67 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 6:18 pm Clutch release bellcrank I'm referring to Stuka, my steering is fine. I want to go back to the original manual clutch I'm saying.
Oh, I must have missed where you mentioned the clutch, oops. I assumed you wanted the original bell crank steering that came in early years over hydraulic steering.

I will agree that I prefer the feel of mechanical clutch over hydraulic. The main thing I dislike about the mechanical is off road if the engine torques over the clutch cannot be depressed, and sometimes the rod can fall out of the clutch fork. But outside that, I never had a complain with any of the mechanical clutch setups I have had.

Somebody else on this forum just did this same thing. And they were able to find the parts. Though it took a bit of searching. The hardest part was the bellhousing side bracket. When searching, be aware that i6 and v8 applications are different. I made that mistake with my J10.
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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Re: Bellcrank source?

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I dont off road the truck, nothing except maybe a light trail or field max. I'd like to find all the pieces pieces see if it'll even work with my setup still. May not due to driveline modifications but I'd assume it should still, may just need to lengthen or shorten the rod
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Phils67
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Phils67 »

If you remember who did the swap or can find the post I'd appreciate it. I prefer the feel of mechanical as well tbh
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Stuka
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Stuka »

It was J7M46sn.

Here is one of his posts, where he names the eBay seller that he got the parts from: https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewto ... 33#p207933
2017 JKU Rubicon
Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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Phils67
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Phils67 »

Awesome. Thanks!
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.

J7M46sn
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by J7M46sn »

Phils67,

My J20 truck was missing all of the clutch linkage parts between the frame mounted bracket and bellhousing. Crown and Omix-Ada do supply some (not all) of the pieces, which I found on Ebay. It took some research to figure out which pieces to buy (I'm new to the FSJ's, but not Jeeps in general). Some of the parts I was looking for were not listed on Ebay, but I found that if you contact some of the sellers, they may have what you're looking for, even if they don't have it listed.

I have also contacted some of the larger Jeep wrecking yards, but I didn't get much help from them, or even many responses. If it wasn't for thee ole innerweb, I think I'd be screwed!
Mike
1977 Jeep J20, 360, T18, D20, D44, D60, 4:10s
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tgreese
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by tgreese »

This truck came with a 232, right?
Early232Clutch (810 x 551).jpg
The parts book is your friend. Lots to see here. Suggest you download the whole thing and save it to your desktop before you browse. You really need a desktop computer for this. Look at the pictures for group 5.

Much of the 232 linkage is different from the later style V8 linkages. Some of it should be the same as the CJ and available, like 5.168-9, -14, -16, -17, -18. These numbers refer to the later tabular part of the book. If you can find the -1 bellcrank and the -11 bracket, the rest of it should be easy to fab with stock parts and some steel. The adjustment rod design is nice as long as the clip doesn't break. If you use the original rod, suggest you put a leash on it, or drill the end and add a cotter key.

I'm assuming your clutch pedal still has the riveted bracket and over-center spring stuff.

On second thought, you may have to fab a replacement for -11. The 232 bell pattern is different from the 4.0L, and who knows if the bolt holes will line up with your bell housing.

Good hunting!
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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Phils67
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Phils67 »

tgreese wrote: Tue Dec 14, 2021 7:13 am This truck came with a 232, right?

Early232Clutch (810 x 551).jpg

The parts book is your friend. Lots to see here. Suggest you download the whole thing and save it to your desktop before you browse. You really need a desktop computer for this. Look at the pictures for group 5.

Much of the 232 linkage is different from the later style V8 linkages. Some of it should be the same as the CJ and available, like 5.168-9, -14, -16, -17, -18. These numbers refer to the later tabular part of the book. If you can find the -1 bellcrank and the -11 bracket, the rest of it should be easy to fab with stock parts and some steel. The adjustment rod design is nice as long as the clip doesn't break. If you use the original rod, suggest you put a leash on it, or drill the end and add a cotter key.

I'm assuming your clutch pedal still has the riveted bracket and over-center spring stuff.

On second thought, you may have to fab a replacement for -11. The 232 bell pattern is different from the 4.0L, and who knows if the bolt holes will line up with your bell housing.

Good hunting!
Thanks, I actually did find that in the parts manual as well. Someday when I have unlimited paper and ink maybe ill print a hard copy of it, which I find easier to read, but it's just shy of 1000 pages also haha so idk. I really need the larger parts like you said such as the actual bellcrank assemblyand the bracket that goes to the body to tie it to the frame bracket, the linkages/rods I can make, and I would modify and use heim joints and a heavier duty rod. That was originally a 232 truck but with the 4.0 now using a T176 bell housing, and has a 1.75" solid steel adapter plate currently between the bell and T18. I'm running a standard 4.0 clutch disc and an adjustable release bearing, iirc I got from Novak. The bearing is setup perfectly, that only required installing and removing the transmission 13 times that day to get it exactly where I needed it to be haha.
Really I just think it's going to be trial and error at this point as far as parts purchases. I do know you can get them for CJs and other certain models still reproduction. Not sure if they'd interchange though. Guess I have homework to do!
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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tgreese
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by tgreese »

I expect the tube of the CJ bellcrank will be too short. The CJ frame is way narrower than the pickup, and I recall that the tube is shorter. I have one of each to look at, if you need a measurement.

Here's the 258 setup from my J10 -
J10bellcrank.jpg
I kinda think you will be better off with this later style. There are some differences - the pushrods bolt to both ends of the bellcrank, and each end is supported by a ball and plastic bushing that goes into the tube, rather than out of it. The supporting brackets will be easier to fab and the design is more compatible with the CJ parts that are available today. Note that the CJ pushrods are smaller diameter than the pickup, using 3/8" rod instead of the 7/16" rod seen here. The CJs all came with a 10.5" clutch, whereas the V8 J-trucks use an 11" clutch.
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Last edited by tgreese on Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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Phils67
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Phils67 »

My concern is mostly my engines positioning vs the original setup. To get it in the frame horns and mounted the way I needed it I had to use 232 engines block brackets on the 4.0 and the only mounts that worked for me were for a 71 Duster. I believe the block casting on the 4.0 is wider than the 232 which made it sit very high with the 232s original isolators. It' sits low and slightly further back than the original setup by about an inch. I had to re-drill my transmission crossmember for it.
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by tgreese »

Mmm. Let me consult my references. Dick Datson says something about this. I believe the mount position was moved higher on the unified 6s to provide for a lower hood? Something like that. Certainly the deck height of the 199/232 is different from the 232/242/258.

Different engine brackets. External dimensions should be the same...
DatsonClip.png
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Last edited by tgreese on Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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Re: Bellcrank source?

Post by Phils67 »

I'm not concerned with the positioning as far as drivability. I actually like where it sits in the engine bay, miles of clearance to the hood. I'm saying I'm just concerned a factory bellcrank system may not fall where i need it to as far as positioning for proper operation. I'd hate to buy all this crap to find out it won't work
1967 Gladiator J2000, 1998 4.0L OBD2, T18, D20 twin sticks, D44HD/D60, Detroit lockers, 3.73s, 4wheel disc brake, FSSR, Dakota digital, etc.
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