Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

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Fast79Chief
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Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by Fast79Chief »

:roll:
Chief is running so good lately. Finally got the Edelbrock 1406 dialed in.
If only we could come up with a '4th gear' solution that didn't involve trashing half our factory drivetrain.
You would think by now, with the GM Turbo 400 being around since the early 60's, some genius would have found a way to slip one more gear into it.

Dreamin ......
1979 Cherokee Chief S, V8, MSD Pro Billet Distributor with New Factory Ignition Box (are these 2 even supposed to work together?), HEI Wires, Edelbrock 1406, Edelbrock Performer manifold, 3.54 gears, Tru-Trac Locker in the rear, Turbo 400, New Quadratrac, Dual gas tanks, new 32 x 11.50's, Big 9000 winch, Homemade 2.5" full length exhaust, Custom Headlight Harness, Custom front bumper working, Custom Rear Swing-out Bumper, Class V receiver hitch ... and a lot of work to do yet. :)
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fulsizjeep
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by fulsizjeep »

Have you looked at the 700r4 solution? In the wayback, one of the CFSJA members put one in his 85ish GW. He liked it. Pricey adapters...
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88 GW, 401/727/208, 5" lift, D44s/4.10s/locked up, 35s
https://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac
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Fast79Chief
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by Fast79Chief »

fulsizjeep,
I put a 700r4 in my 72 K20 some years ago. Love that transmission.
Can it be done with my 79 Chief and keep the Quadratrac and same front and rear axle?
1979 Cherokee Chief S, V8, MSD Pro Billet Distributor with New Factory Ignition Box (are these 2 even supposed to work together?), HEI Wires, Edelbrock 1406, Edelbrock Performer manifold, 3.54 gears, Tru-Trac Locker in the rear, Turbo 400, New Quadratrac, Dual gas tanks, new 32 x 11.50's, Big 9000 winch, Homemade 2.5" full length exhaust, Custom Headlight Harness, Custom front bumper working, Custom Rear Swing-out Bumper, Class V receiver hitch ... and a lot of work to do yet. :)
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TheShagoneer
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by TheShagoneer »

I am doing this exact project right now. I have a rebuilt 700r off a K series truck and the Advance Adapter for 700R to Quadratrac. The alignment from the output shafts on the T case to the Diffs I have read will line up but I am planning that I’ll have to remount the transmission mount to the chassis with new holes by about an inch or so. I have slip shafts front and back which I’ve read are almost certainly necessary since the adapter and 700R add length to the overall drivetrain.

I am actually trying to find a thread on this forum about rebuilding the Borg Warner. I have one with a reduction unit and after putting it back together the front out put shaft spins freely instead of spinning with the rear output shaft.

Anyone know if I might have screwed something up?
:fsj:
##79 Cherokee Chief##
:fsj:

rocklaurence
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by rocklaurence »

The AW4 maybe an easier /cheaper option. Its an ASIN transmission in many 4L Baby Jeeps.
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Fast79Chief
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by Fast79Chief »

rocklaurence,
Thanks for your suggestion. I have that transmission in my 96 XJ. As I originally posted though, I want to get a 4th gear with MINIMAL replacement of other driveline components. As I have seen over the years, many of these 'other' transmission suggestions end up gutting the entire driveline including front and rear diffs and transfer case just to accommodate the new transmission. Basically, If I have to do that ... I'll just LS from front to back. $$$$$$$$$ That is not my goal at all.

My goal is Minimal replacement of factory driveline to get a 4th gear. I.E. keeping Quadratrac transfer case and factory drop front Dana 44 and factory rear Dana 44.

Like I originally posted ... I think it's still a dream.
Can anyone Prove me wrong? lol

Thanks for the input ... please keep the ideas rolling.
1979 Cherokee Chief S, V8, MSD Pro Billet Distributor with New Factory Ignition Box (are these 2 even supposed to work together?), HEI Wires, Edelbrock 1406, Edelbrock Performer manifold, 3.54 gears, Tru-Trac Locker in the rear, Turbo 400, New Quadratrac, Dual gas tanks, new 32 x 11.50's, Big 9000 winch, Homemade 2.5" full length exhaust, Custom Headlight Harness, Custom front bumper working, Custom Rear Swing-out Bumper, Class V receiver hitch ... and a lot of work to do yet. :)
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Fast79Chief
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by Fast79Chief »

TheShagoneer,
you got me curious about these 'adapters' for the 700r4 to a quadratrac??
What other mods need to be made to accommodate a non-computer 700r4?
I have a K case 700 in the garage taking up space.

Look forward to hearing from you.

Thanks.
1979 Cherokee Chief S, V8, MSD Pro Billet Distributor with New Factory Ignition Box (are these 2 even supposed to work together?), HEI Wires, Edelbrock 1406, Edelbrock Performer manifold, 3.54 gears, Tru-Trac Locker in the rear, Turbo 400, New Quadratrac, Dual gas tanks, new 32 x 11.50's, Big 9000 winch, Homemade 2.5" full length exhaust, Custom Headlight Harness, Custom front bumper working, Custom Rear Swing-out Bumper, Class V receiver hitch ... and a lot of work to do yet. :)
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Yeller
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by Yeller »

The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909
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TheShagoneer
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by TheShagoneer »

Fast79Chief,

The advance adapter is obviously crucial. I haven’t started hooking up the 700 to anything yet, but I have an automatic shifter already and from what I can see all the hosing and connectors match up from what I had to the 700. I have a Chevy 350 in it already so it’s making it an easy bolt up for the most part. The TH400 had an adapter plate to mount to the bell housing, so after removing that and adding the advance adapter I really shouldn’t be too far off from where the T case mounted to the chassis. The slip shafts are going to make the rest of this easy.

Update on my last post, I figured out that the previous owner already put in the part time kit for the BW (I think mile marker). So I thought I had an issue with the front yolk not spinning with the rear, but turns out that’s the design with this kit and the vacuum diaphragm can be used to put it into full 4x4 or a front disengaged 2 wheel drive. Kinda stoked about that! I can upload pics when I get everything in.
##79 Cherokee Chief##
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89_Wagon
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by 89_Wagon »

What's the bolt pattern for your quadratrac? I know the NP229 has the same bolt pattern as the AW4 tailhousing, but just needs a spacer so things don't bottom out. Maybe you would just need an adapter there? The AW4 bellhousing bolts up to the AMC V8.
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Stuka
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by Stuka »

89_Wagon wrote: Thu Dec 16, 2021 9:02 am What's the bolt pattern for your quadratrac? I know the NP229 has the same bolt pattern as the AW4 tailhousing, but just needs a spacer so things don't bottom out. Maybe you would just need an adapter there? The AW4 bellhousing bolts up to the AMC V8.
The BW1339 uses a unique bolt pattern. No other t-case uses it.
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Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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Fast79Chief
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by Fast79Chief »

Interesting ....
So if Advance was to make an AW4 to Quadratrac adapter ... that could be a GO too?
But then the AW4 is an electronic trans, right? Would I then need a Controller for the AW4 and a carb'd non-computer 360?
1979 Cherokee Chief S, V8, MSD Pro Billet Distributor with New Factory Ignition Box (are these 2 even supposed to work together?), HEI Wires, Edelbrock 1406, Edelbrock Performer manifold, 3.54 gears, Tru-Trac Locker in the rear, Turbo 400, New Quadratrac, Dual gas tanks, new 32 x 11.50's, Big 9000 winch, Homemade 2.5" full length exhaust, Custom Headlight Harness, Custom front bumper working, Custom Rear Swing-out Bumper, Class V receiver hitch ... and a lot of work to do yet. :)
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Yeller
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by Yeller »

That is correct the aw4 requires a controller. It needs tach signal and a throttle position sensor added to the motor
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909

89_Wagon
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by 89_Wagon »

Depending on the year, the electronics are different. There are Renix (older and not as desireable for a swap in my opinion) and Aisin based controllers. I did the AW4 swap a few years ago and was able to tap the GM TPS off the TBI system in my rig (Aisin system). The only other signal that needs to be hooked up is the brake sense circuit (will unlock converter). No tach signal, at least not in my case. There is a speed signal on the tail housing. Also, the controller is separate from the ECU in all years. However, they do share a harness and various sensors. I hacked up an XJ body harness to get what I needed and used the XJ fuse panel to patch it in. The wiring is simple once the essentials are figure out. The tricky part is getting the flexplate balanced for the AMC 360.

Here's my AW4 swap thread if you're interested. If I were to change one thing, I would make my front driveshaft longer and the rear a little shorter.
http://www.ifsja.org/forums/vb/showthread.php?t=187654
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Fast79Chief
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by Fast79Chief »

... and right there, all that, is why I won't go electronic.
One thing needs another and then another, and then the next thing you know ... you have an F150 instead of a 79 Chief. lol

I do appreciate that info 89, but no, I'm not doing all that to my carbureted Chief.

I'm leaning towards that 700r4 conversion. Got to figure out what input shaft is needed to go into the Quadratrac TC.
1979 Cherokee Chief S, V8, MSD Pro Billet Distributor with New Factory Ignition Box (are these 2 even supposed to work together?), HEI Wires, Edelbrock 1406, Edelbrock Performer manifold, 3.54 gears, Tru-Trac Locker in the rear, Turbo 400, New Quadratrac, Dual gas tanks, new 32 x 11.50's, Big 9000 winch, Homemade 2.5" full length exhaust, Custom Headlight Harness, Custom front bumper working, Custom Rear Swing-out Bumper, Class V receiver hitch ... and a lot of work to do yet. :)
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Yeller
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by Yeller »

Advance Adapters is the one I’m aware of that makes/sells that shaft and adapter.
The bus I ride is so short it is a yellow Smart Car full of squirrels, monkeys and clowns.

1970 J2500 Resto Mod
https://www.fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewt ... 12&t=21395

1974 Bronco “Broncno”
https://classicbroncos.com/forums/threa ... st-3411909

89_Wagon
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by 89_Wagon »

No worries, totally understand and happy to provide some info. There's something to be said about keeping it simple and also going with a well-supported platform (700R). Mine is more of a family vacation car so the drivetrain just needs to work and work well. The OD just makes it quieter on the HW and squeaks out another 1-2 MPGs.

klhanco
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by klhanco »

@Fast79Chief I was curious if you've decided to try the 700R4 conversion and if so, how it went. I've been thinking about it as well.

5jeepsaz
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by 5jeepsaz »

X2. No tech solution? Just add a gear? Love it.
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TheShagoneer
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Re: Dreams of a 4th Gear ...

Post by TheShagoneer »

klhanco wrote: Fri Feb 18, 2022 4:22 pm @Fast79Chief I was curious if you've decided to try the 700R4 conversion and if so, how it went. I've been thinking about it as well.
Been a while since I came back on here, was under the Chief for a while. I have the 700R4 installed to the Chevy350 and the Quadratrac mounts peacefully to the advance adapter I put on between the 700 and QT. AA's instructions aren't great and you actually have to chop off a quarter to half inch of the output shaft on the 700. After that everything was butter.

Except.. it is true that the front output yoke on the QT will collide with the 700R oil pan when putting the front driveshaft back on. The CV joint is very large and cannot be installed since the 700R oil pan is now in the way. Trying to find the solution to that now..
##79 Cherokee Chief##
:fsj:
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