Frame Rust

[refinemrh]

I am in the process of stripping my 83 WT down to the frame. I wanted to see if anyone has used the following Eastwood products:

Rust Converter
Rust Encapsulator
Extreme Chassis Black

Thanks for any feedback or tips.

Regards,

Mike

[tgreese]

I have used their Rust Encapsulator. It's a paint - I believe it's a moisture cured urethane, like many on the market. Weather resistance seemed poor compared to my favorite, Aluthane. Likely that's why they suggest top coating with another paint.

You need water and air for rust to continue. The red rust you see is an iron hydrate, and it has a larger volume than the original steel. Thus as it forms it pulls away from the steel and exposes new steel to the air. An MCU is a resin that cures by moisture. Thus, it takes up any water in the surface and prevents new rust in that way. It also contains a pigment, which layers in the matrix to seal out the air. I suspect the black pigment in RE is not as effective as aluminum, which is used in other MCUs. Hirsch Miracle Paint is another said to be good.

A rust convertor changes (converts) the oxidtation state of the rust from red to black. Black oxide does not slough off like red oxide, so it forms a more weather resistant surface. Not great, IMO, but something better to build on. No experience with Eastwood's product. If you want a convertor product, I like the Permatex convertor. I think it's a latex product with some organic compound that converts the rust. I would top coat it.

[iharding]

This guy actually tests them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ag46YUovPUc

[refinemrh]

Thanks for the info. I really appreciate it.

[tgreese]

Both POR-15 and Eastwood are MCUs, AFAIK. The POR-15 uses aluminum as pigment, which I think is important to overall performance. POR-15 also uses some resin that is not UV stabilized, so they call for a top coat.

This is a great product.
https://epoxyproducts.com/aluthane.html

[letank]

Aluthane cannot be shipped to California....
I have good results with the permatex converter... at least 5 to 10 years... on body panels... my frames have surface rust... but my bodies have bad decaying spots... check my body work link for horror show
Our steal rust because the paint becomes porous... so you can sand any area 1" near a beginning rusty spot and you will see a faint bit of rust.

[tgreese]

Too much solvent! VOC bad.

[refinemrh]

Michel and Tim, Thanks for your info. I might try the POR15.

I will let you know how things work out.

[tgreese]

Aluthane cannot be shipped to California....
...

https://www.hirschauto.com/QUART-MIRACL ... MIR-QUART/
You might try this. I've read it's good, and the description sounds mostly the same to Aluthane. They are in NJ, and I went all the way to checkout without any California notices. I have used their other products and been pleased. Hirsch is well known in old car hobby circles.

[letank]

Aluthane cannot be shipped to California....
...

https://www.hirschauto.com/QUART-MIRACL ... MIR-QUART/
You might try this. I've read it's good, and the description sounds mostly the same to Aluthane. They are in NJ, and I went all the way to checkout without any California notices. I have used their other products and been pleased. Hirsch is well known in old car hobby circles.

thank you Tim...

[letank]

https://www.hirschauto.com/QUART-MIRACL ... MIR-QUART/
You might try this. I've read it's good, and the description sounds mostly the same to Aluthane. They are in NJ, and I went all the way to checkout without any California notices. I have used their other products and been pleased. Hirsch is well known in old car hobby circles.

I ordered the Hirsch miracle 40 days ago or so... Tim thank you for the recommendation, it was pretty challenging to avoid putting it on your face when doing the frame from underside... with our foggy weather in September, the first coat turned tacky within 90min and was ready for the second coat. With a quart I did most of the rusty spots where oil leaks do not reach, the front frame under the radiator, then the area from the middle of the gas tank to the back and the hitch attachment avoiding the nuts and bolts.
Yes the VOC is high, but with the cold temperature it was OK, working outside was fine, still noticeable for a couple of days around the vehicle parked outside.

As a note use some single use disposable coverall... and double glove.

[tgreese]

https://www.hirschauto.com/QUART-MIRACL ... MIR-QUART/
You might try this. I've read it's good, and the description sounds mostly the same to Aluthane. They are in NJ, and I went all the way to checkout without any California notices. I have used their other products and been pleased. Hirsch is well known in old car hobby circles.

I ordered the Hirsch miracle 40 days ago or so... Tim thank you for the recommendation, it was pretty challenging to avoid putting it on your face when doing the frame from underside... with our foggy weather in September, the first coat turned tacky within 90min and was ready for the second coat. With a quart I did most of the rusty spots where oil leaks do not reach, the front frame under the radiator, then the area from the middle of the gas tank to the back and the hitch attachment avoiding the nuts and bolts.
Yes the VOC is high, but with the cold temperature it was OK, working outside was fine, still noticeable for a couple of days around the vehicle parked outside.

As a note use some single use disposable coverall... and double glove.

Interested how this works out. Which color did you choose? If not black, did you top coat.

This type of paint does not come off your skin after it dries. Pretty much has to wear off. Shed your gloves and don't get it on your hootus!

If you did not use it all, the moisture in the air will make it set up into a brick in the can. With Aluthane, I punch a hole in the can top with an awl and squirt out what I need into a paper cup. I then seal with a screw. This keeps the paint liquid in the can for maybe months or a year. Oman (linked above) suggests filling the can with gas, like from a propane torch, to displace the air. I recall someone suggested using gas from their MIG/TIG welder.

[letank]

Interested how this works out. Which color did you choose? If not black, did you top coat.

This type of paint does not come off your skin after it dries.

If you did not use it all, the moisture in the air will make it set up into a brick in the can. With Aluthane, I punch a hole in the can top with an awl and squirt out what I need into a paper cup. I then seal with a screw.

I picked black because there is no need to put a UV resistant coat. Good for 90 days in the can before it turns to a brick.

Well as for sticky, yes I had some bits on the wrist, but any decent solvent will remove the stains, even 30min later... and the blob on the driveway.

The Hirsch Miracle is really thick, probably why it can be shipped to the Prop 65 state... So I followed whatever direction, and putting a hole on the top... nothing was coming out... so I had to open ... transfer to some plastic container and yes, the first pass was a bit thick... I later diluted with paint thinner and it was easier to get decent coverage. Note: I used gaffer tape to seal the punch hole on the top, the next day there was a nice blob on the lid. I used the product in about 10 days...

Not a show queen, so it is a bit brutal for those who try to have a showcase rig... mine sleeps on the street... and yes there was a lot of rust, so much that I did not take picts...

Front Hitch

FrontHitchMCUdsl.jpg

Front Passenger frame

PassFrontMCUdsl.jpg

Center beam

CenterBeamMCUdsl.jpg

Rear frame passenger side

PassRHitchMCUdsl.jpg

Yes, it could have been better... but the product is really thick

[candymancan]

You should have cleaned that frame up with a wire wheel at least my man.

Im an expert now on rust with these Jeeps ive rebuilt my J10s bed completetly.. one of the few i think who have. And done a lot of frame work and so forth.

I personally use rustolium rust reformer. I dont like the paint brush stuff. Spray gets into places better. But you better wear a respirator. But before you use any spray or roll on stuff. You must clean it up as best as you can. You need a basic drill and wire wheels or angle grinder and wire wheels preferably and you gatta wear a good p100 respirator and go to town as best as you can on the frame.

Its tedious. But worth it. Ive never had rust come back doing this and 2-3 coats of rust reformer. Wagoneers rear frame was all orange. This was it 7 years ago maybe 8 i forgot when i first got it lol. And its still black like this

[letank]

You should have cleaned that frame up with a wire wheel at least my man.

Im an expert now on rust with these Jeeps ive rebuilt my J10s bed completetly.. one of the few i think who have. And done a lot of frame work and so forth.

I personally use rustolium rust reformer. I dont like the paint brush stuff. Spray gets into places better. But you better wear a respirator. But before you use any spray or roll on stuff. You must clean it up as best as you can. You need a basic drill and wire wheels or angle grinder and wire wheels preferably and you get to wear a good p100 respirator and go to town as best as you can on the frame.

Its tedious. But worth it. Ive never had rust come back doing this and 2-3 coats of rust reformer. Wagoneers rear frame was all orange. This was it 7 years ago maybe 8 i forgot when i first got it lol. And its still black like this

You are right, but did not feel like breathing all that spray... I was going to go to my friend's cabin and do the wirewheel ... it was too hot... then when the weather is good, time for fun.

[candymancan]

A p100 respirator from lowes for 35$ has charcoal in them you wont even smell it. Put a box fan on the ground or little fan with you to blow it away from you. Do it outside