Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

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candymancan
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Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by candymancan »

So i got my alignment done.. dummies did it for a 88 wrangler lol so half way hime i noticed that on the paper.. and went bwck and they had to adjust the toe for 16 degrees total.. prior they put it at 0 total.

But my caster and camber which i know cant be adjusted is off.

The camber on the drivers side is saying its -0.8. And passenger side shows 0.01.

Caster drivers is 3.6 and passenger is 3.2

I just replaced the bad ball joints on the passengerside. But drivers side they seem fine according to myself checking and everyone else. So i havent touched them.

The mechanic also went under the Jeep to look for play in anything with me wiggling the steering wheel and he couldnt find anything. No play in the steering. Or rag joints or u joint on the steering column thingy.

My jeep pulls to the right though. It used to drive straight as an arrow. Then after my tires and lift it started pulling. He said its because of my camber.

So how do i adjust that ?

Here is a pic of the numbers

Image

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1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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babywag
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by babywag »

Caster/Camber in NON adjustable on these unless you have installed an adjustable ball joint on each side.
Or shims can be used behind the spindle(s).

The camber numbers explain why it pulls.
-.8 and +.1 That is a BIG difference and would cause it to pull.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)

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candymancan
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by candymancan »

So how do i fix this then ? To get the right adjustment for th3 drivers side that side i think is the one that needs fixed. I havent replaced the drivers ball joints. They seem fine. And i susoect they were done at one point. Or at least one was done as it has a zerk fitting on the lower joint. Thats not factory.


What could cause this to be so far out of whack ? Could it simply be the ball joints need replaced on that side ? Maybe theyre bad too even though they arent moving ?

Do you know what ball joints i should get that can be adjustable. Or would you go with a spindle shim. If so what kind ?
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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Stuka
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by Stuka »

First thing to check, is tire pressure at all four corners, but mostly the front. Very common cause of pulling to one side or the other is tire pressure differences left to right. It typically pulls to the side with lower air pressure.

However, pulling to the right is pretty common because the majority of roads have a crown in them. When I setup control arms on newer wranglers, I actually adjust the passenger side lower control arm to be slightly longer to correct that. So on a truly flat road they may drift a bit to the left, but on regular roads, they drive straight.

Its also possible you have a bent axle C. Which would not surprise me on any older solid axle vehicle. Its very common, and could have been there from the factory.

However, if your Jeep did not do this before you made the changes, it could be one of the new ball joints is slightly offset to one side, which is not uncommon. It would require rotating it to move the offset. But this is not only a lot of work to take it all back apart, its tough to know which way its offset as we are talking thousandths of an inch.

Another way to fix pull is, if your spring center pins have any play, loosen the u-bolts on the passenger side, push the axle forward so the center pin is rearward in the axle centering hole.

Oh, another cause, I had this on my Cherokee and my J10. The rear spring eyes had side to side play. They would change the direction the Jeep would pull based on which side they slid too while driving and turning. I ended up having to add spacers to make up the difference between the spring bushing and the spring mount on the frame.
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Pevious Jeeps: 1981 J10, 1975 Cherokee, 2008 JK, 2005 KJ, 1989 XJ
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ProTouring442
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by ProTouring442 »

Camber causes tire wear, caster causes a pull.

Neither your caster nor your camber specs seem far enough out to be of much concern.

You say your pull started when you put new tires on it? In detective novels, that's called a clue. :P Try rotating the tires and see if that changes anything.

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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by candymancan »

I did rotate the tires recently. It didnt fix it. Sorry i should have mentioned that. But yea i got my add a leaf and tires at the same time. And this is when it really atarted to pull. Prior i could let go of the steering wheel and it would drive straight down the road for a mile without moving.

I actually thought the pull was because of my bad ball joints on the passenger side.

Ill losen the u bolts and see if i can push or pull the center pin and see if that does anything.

It is weird though how the pull started after tires and lift
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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babywag
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by babywag »

ProTouring442 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:34 pm Camber causes tire wear, caster causes a pull.

Neither your caster nor your camber specs seem far enough out to be of much concern.
Cross camber is nearly a full degree, that much and it WILL pull.
Cross caster isn't enough to cause a pull.

Both camber or caster can cause pulls if they are unequal side/side.
-Tony
'88 GW (aka Babywag)
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fulsizjeep
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by fulsizjeep »

Check this out:
Flint Boardman
88 GW, 401/727/208, 5" lift, D44s/4.10s/locked up, 35s
https://jubileejeeps.org/quadratrac
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ProTouring442
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by ProTouring442 »

babywag wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 9:31 pm
ProTouring442 wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:34 pm Camber causes tire wear, caster causes a pull.

Neither your caster nor your camber specs seem far enough out to be of much concern.
Cross camber is nearly a full degree, that much and it WILL pull.
Cross caster isn't enough to cause a pull.

Both camber or caster can cause pulls if they are unequal side/side.
I've aligned cars with the camber on one side several degrees out, yet they didn't a pull.
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ProTouring442
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by ProTouring442 »

candymancan wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:10 pm I did rotate the tires recently. It didnt fix it. Sorry i should have mentioned that. But yea i got my add a leaf and tires at the same time. And this is when it really atarted to pull. Prior i could let go of the steering wheel and it would drive straight down the road for a mile without moving.

I actually thought the pull was because of my bad ball joints on the passenger side.

Ill losen the u bolts and see if i can push or pull the center pin and see if that does anything.

It is weird though how the pull started after tires and lift
Have you checked to ensure the axle is square to the vehicle?

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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by SJTD »

If I recall correctly he's got an extra leaf in the spring on one side. Who knows what's going on.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

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candymancan
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by candymancan »

No i have an add a leaf on all 4 springs.. i did 1 add a leaf originally just ti get an idea on the lift.

How would i check if the axle is square ? Sorry never done that before. Dont see how it wouldnt be square the springs came apart.. put the add a leaf in. Bolted it back up and plopped it back in the hole on the axle. Just had to push or pull the axle foward or back to line it up with the pin like everyone does. But how do i check this ?


Thanks for the video fullsizedJeep. That looks very simple enough. I have that tool obviously for the two ball joints i just replaced. So ill look into buying that adjustment sleeve .

I wonder cant i just take off the castle nut on the ball joint and remove that old sleeve install this and adjust it per the degree i need and then check the alignment again. Meaning i shouldnt need to remove the wheel bearings or spindle or anything. The top nut is accessible in plain sight
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)

SJTD
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by SJTD »

Ok, sorry about the misinfo.

You have to carefully measure the axle to axle dimension on each side. Can't do tire to tire or anything that involves the steerable part of the front axle. And you have to measure from the front axle to fixed position on each side like the front spring mounts of the rear axle.

The idea is to insure the axles are square to the frame and to each other. There's prolly info in the service manual about this if you have it. Or maybe on oljeep.com. Year shouldn't matter.

I'd think a frame shop could do it if an alignment shop can't. One of the build threads on the other site went into this.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

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candymancan
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by candymancan »

In the meantime whil3 i figure this all out. Cant i unbolt some joints down there near the pitman arm and adjust the rod down there to push and pull the steering wheel so it makes it seem more like center ?

I did this on my 98 Grand Cherokee but i forgot what that stuff down there is called to do this adjustment
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)

SJTD
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by SJTD »

When you install a lift you should adjust the drop link to center the wheel. It has longer distance to reach just like the driveshafts but it doesn't have a slip joint so it needs to be adjusted.

Even with a dropped pitman arm it'll need some adjusting.

The box should be centered. It isn't just a matter of aesthetics and having to look at the crooked steering wheel.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

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candymancan
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by candymancan »

9kay then how do i center the steering wheel. Is it the two nuts on that sleeve by the pitman arn i losen up and then turn the sleeve on the threads until my steering wheel is centered ? Thats what i did with my ZJ once. But i just wanna be sure this isnt going to knock my toe in or out or something
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)

SJTD
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by SJTD »

Yeah. Loosen the two lock nuts and turn the sleeve. Won't affect alignment. If you mess with the tie rod between the two wheels you change the toe in.

Seems to me the alignment shop should have adjusted the steering wheel alignment.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by Herk »

How old are the ball joints in the axle? I would start there.

SJTD
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by SJTD »

Yeah, the one that's off is the one you didn't replace, right?

Maybe put the axle on a stand and use a 2x4 under the wheel while someone gets back in there and watches for movement of the knuckle. Might be too tight to feel movement when you try to move the tire but still be bad.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

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candymancan
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Re: Got my alignment done. Help with these numbers

Post by candymancan »

Yea the side thats reading off on the camber or caster or whateber is the side i havent touched the ball joints. Although that side (drivers) has a zerk fitting on the bottom ball joint.. Which isnt factory.. So that leads me to believe that ball joint was replaced at one point. OEM spicer ball joints for these Jeeps dont have that fitting, but moog ones and such do. So its probly some aftermarket one. I just hope if it is aftermarket it isnt one of those tapered ones that chew into the socket the ball joint presses into. Id prefer to stick with spicer parts

But whats wieird is the upper joint has the original castle nut on it. I can tell by the size of it vs the new one from spicer i put on. So its almost like the bottom one was replaced and the upper wasnt

So i dunno lol. I plan to replace those ball joints anyway, and the u joint on the axle shaft and the seals on the shaft like i did on the other side. Just not at this moment. Youre right ive heard of bad ball joints not moving.. and being suoer tight. Not just wobbly and loose. And judging on my other two being dry as a bone.. yea..

As for the shop and them having to adjust the steering wheel. I do see the scrape marks from the socket on the nuts so he did losen them. But it didnt change anything. My steering wheel i still have to keep it turned to the left slightly to stay center.

Is this because of the pull? I dunno.

Im considering jacking the jeep in the air so the axle floats. And losening the u bolts and see if the axle settles in a different position. And then retighten them not sure what good thatd do but hey ya never know

This is getting rather annoying. Im going to start with adjusting the steering wheel tomorrow though so its center at least center when im driving down the road.


At least the good thing is im not seeing any real abnormal tire wear.
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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