Body Mounts OR Leaf Spring Bushing upgrade - WHICH 1st?

[kr8peace]

1980 Wagoneer Custom and 1987 GW: Planning to replace the body bushings, some visibly cracked so assumed much harder than when new; and all the leaf spring bushings, assuming they've also long lost any real cushioning and may improve both ride and handling with replacing or upgrading:

1) How to assess the leaf spring bushings, maybe pipe wrenching side to side to ck for wear/slop? I assume springs are all ok if they look and ride ok...

2) Which to replace first, body mounts or leaf bushings, or any benefit to doing both at once? Doesn't appear one job affects the other job that much, other than the left rear spring bolt being trapped inside the fuel tank shield, hope it's accessible under?

3) Which - Body mounts OR Leaf Spring Bushings - helps improve the ride and handling and sound the most? Is there a recommended upgrade material that really improves things, or should I stick with oem replacements? Both are stock with 360's.

I'm looking to keep a quiet ride and good handling at least factory if not better it it exists affordably. Longevity of materials is a concern always. I would prefer a lifespan of at least 20 years on something this major pita. I'm an old competent restorer, mechanic, custom rod and mc painter, craftsman of wood, metals, plastics, and odd materials, a retired industrial and architectural designer and fabricator. If there are worthy improvements I can fabricate, I'm open to justified work, as long as it does not reduce any resale value. Keeping the 80 and restoring the 87 to sell.

[threepiece]

I will caution you about using a pipe wrench. The hardened jaws could put some serious scratches on the surface of the spring. Scratches could cause a stress riser that may result in a crack some time later.

If you intend to improve the harshness I would not use polyurethane. In my opinion the polyurethane available is harder than the original rubber. This increase in hardness will transmit more energy than the softer rubber. However, the aftermarket rubber products have not proven durable to me. More than once my new rubber body and spring Insulators have cracked in far to short of time.

For the last three builds I have used rubber products from a specialized manufacturer. The body mounts are called “Universal Mounts” and are made from neoprene and have lasted more than twenty years without cracking . They are available in an array of sizes and load capacities. The ones I use require modification to the support structure but I found most FSJ frames around here require repair anyway.

[Atevres]

Can you tell us more about neoprene body mounts ???
Thank you

[gilbedw]

Please expand on the "Universal Mounts".

[kr8peace]

Great feedback thanks! I wondered about those poly biscuits, and will definitely check out the universal ones. Would you have an opinion on which to do first, bushings or mounts? Hoping I can do mounts one at a time without raising the body much, but figured I may have to do half at a time if the body needs raised much. IF you can also suggest good spring bushings please do.

[1978J10REDWHITE]

Once you get a source for your bushings, POST it in a link as I am going to need some eventually, if Not everyone on the forum, go figure that one.

[threepiece]

Can you tell us more about neoprene body mounts ???
Thank you

I don't know of any body mounts that are made from Neoprene. Neoprene is a synthetic rubber that is chemical and temperature resistant. It has a wide range of uses. The insulators I use are called Universal Mounts and are used for a variety of applications like machine, motor, engine and vehicle cab isolation. The basic design is much like a standard body mount used in our Jeeps.

The Universal Mounts I have used with good results are made by Tech Products. They require a different support structure thickness and hole diameter than a FSJ frame provides. Unless your frame needs repair in this area I would not recommend using them. There may be other companies that make an insulator that does not require modification to the support structure. I have not looked recently as I bought a bulk supply of mounts from said company years ago.

[kr8peace]

Anyone know if I can access the Drivers side REAR leaf spring front eye nut, which is on the frame inside, by dropping the tank shield? OR must the tank come down? OR could I get lucky and it is a welded nut? I haven't dropped the shield to see if there's enough space for a socket to access an unwelded nut, or to do without dropping the tank itself. Seems IF it had a welded nut onto the frame, it could be done easily without even dropping the shield - and of course I suspect the factory didn't weld this nut if it is like the passenger side (unwelded). So I suspect the nut will turn with the bolt facing outwards, requiring holding the nut with a socket and extension. Please tell me I'm in luck with this one, I hate dropping tanks...

[dodgerammit]

Anyone know if I can access the Drivers side REAR leaf spring front eye nut, which is on the frame inside, by dropping the tank shield? OR must the tank come down? OR could I get lucky and it is a welded nut? I haven't dropped the shield to see if there's enough space for a socket to access an unwelded nut, or to do without dropping the tank itself. Seems IF it had a welded nut onto the frame, it could be done easily without even dropping the shield - and of course I suspect the factory didn't weld this nut if it is like the passenger side (unwelded). So I suspect the nut will turn with the bolt facing outwards, requiring holding the nut with a socket and extension. Please tell me I'm in luck with this one, I hate dropping tanks...

Nut isn't welded. I'm pretty sure it is a captive nut (held by sheet metal capture around it). Some have gotten lucky and sprayed with penetrating oil and successfully loosened it. I wouldn't hold my breath. Expect to drop the tank. Run the gas nearly out of it and tackle the job. It's probably gonna take awhile.

I have a rear mount tank now, so I can probably get some pics of what you can't see.

[SJTD]

Yeah, the tank mounts in the shield and the whole assembly goes in. Or out.

[dodgerammit]

Anyone know if I can access the Drivers side REAR leaf spring front eye nut, which is on the frame inside, by dropping the tank shield? OR must the tank come down? OR could I get lucky and it is a welded nut? I haven't dropped the shield to see if there's enough space for a socket to access an unwelded nut, or to do without dropping the tank itself. Seems IF it had a welded nut onto the frame, it could be done easily without even dropping the shield - and of course I suspect the factory didn't weld this nut if it is like the passenger side (unwelded). So I suspect the nut will turn with the bolt facing outwards, requiring holding the nut with a socket and extension. Please tell me I'm in luck with this one, I hate dropping tanks...

Nut isn't welded. I'm pretty sure it is a captive nut (held by sheet metal capture around it). Some have gotten lucky and sprayed with penetrating oil and successfully loosened it. I wouldn't hold my breath. Expect to drop the tank. Run the gas nearly out of it and tackle the job. It's probably gonna take awhile.

I have a rear mount tank now, so I can probably get some pics of what you can't see.

Edit: Here is a photo of that captive nut.