No crank help

Stock FSJ Tech Area
Post Reply

Topic author
selkplitt
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:30 am

No crank help

Post by selkplitt »

I have a no crank after warm going on. It will start fine when cold. But once warm I get no crank, as in no signal to starter. I have replaced everything and can’t figure this one out. I have replaced starter, relay on fender twice, ignition switch at bottom of column. I have a msd distributor and 6 al box and msd coil. The ignition has been on for over. A year with no problem.
When I have the no start, I was able to jump the positive terminal on the relay on fender to the wire that goes to the starter solenoid, sometimes that works, but no longer. The ground wire on the relay goes to neutral safety switch, which I replaced. I also ran a wire directly from the negative battery terminal to the ground on the relay, so as to bypass the nss. That doesn’t always work. I have replaced the fusible links with new fusible links to the relay. I have pulled the electrical connector at the firewall and cleaned out all the old gook and put in dielectric grease. I am at a loss. This is a fresh rebuild to stock with 1500 miles. Tons of money spent and this small electrical gremlin has me at a stand still.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I do have the factory manual, but I have run out of patience.
Thanks for any and all help. By the way and 89 with 92500 miles
89 Grand Wagoneer bone stock
07 Commander 4.7 Rocky Mountain QDII
18 GMC Canyon Denali 2.8 diesel
User avatar

Hspencer
Posts: 164
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: No crank help

Post by Hspencer »

When this are you getting anything, clicking or anything that sounds like it’s trying to crank or it it just dead? Assuming all connections are tight and new cables from battery to ground, battery to relay and relay to starter it sounds like the solenoid could be getting heat soaked causing it to not work properly, battery cables can do this as well.

How new is the starter? Is it a quality starter or reman box store? Years ago I replaced an alternator on my wife’s car with a box store reman, worked great for about 5 minutes then nothing, after the second one failed within a few days I finally bought a new Delco alternator and never had another problem, sold the car five years later with the same alternator still charging fine. If it’s a box store reman I’d pull it and find a quality replacement from a reputable source.

If cables are good next time it does it I’d get the meter out and start checking things, voltage to relay with key in start position, voltage from relay in start position... just check everything starting at the furthest point from the started and work towards the starter.

You can waste a lot of time and money if you skip the troubleshooting process and just start throwing parts at the problem, ask me how I know!

In my experience if you have the time in most cases with starters and alternators you’re better off finding a local professional to rebuild the factory units, they’re usually better built than the aftermarket ones and will perform better and last longer. If you don’t have time to wait try to find a good quality replacement, NAPA use to be a good source but they can be hit or miss anymore. Not sure if the guy at the county knew what he was talking about but he told me the other day that they source a lot of parts from auto zone.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
1988 GW
1984 Wagoneer(SJ)
2008 JK

Topic author
selkplitt
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:30 am

Re: No crank help

Post by selkplitt »

No not getting anything. No clicking at relay. When I did have someone around to turn the key when it did this, I was getting the signal from the switch. We then jumped the ground on the relay to negative battery and fired right up. Thought I found it. The ground on the relay gets the grounding signal from the neutral safety switch. It seems as though I have 2 issues going on. One time it’s the signal and I can jump the positive on the relay to the wire for the solenoid and works. Then it doesn’t then it’s the ground. I have replaced the relay twice now and have another one ready to go in. The cables were replaced with new when the engine was replaced. I hadn’t thought about the solenoid getting heat soaked. But I would think that I would hear some clicking at the solenoid. But I get nothing at all. No clicking anywhere. No dimming of lights. So I know here is not a signal getting to the relay. But I can’t find it. Thanks for the help
89 Grand Wagoneer bone stock
07 Commander 4.7 Rocky Mountain QDII
18 GMC Canyon Denali 2.8 diesel

will e
Posts: 5096
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:21 am

Re: No crank help

Post by will e »

Does it always crank when cold?
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
selkplitt
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:30 am

Re: No crank help

Post by selkplitt »

Yes always starts cold. When hot nothing at all. Cools down and starts. I’m hoping my brother will come over this weekend and help. Just meet someone to turn the key when it won’t start.
89 Grand Wagoneer bone stock
07 Commander 4.7 Rocky Mountain QDII
18 GMC Canyon Denali 2.8 diesel

rocklaurence
Vendor
Posts: 2565
Joined: Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:53 am

Re: No crank help

Post by rocklaurence »

OK. my 3 guesses: First, make sure that the relay is activating. If not, trace the ignition/start circuit. Secound, bad ground to the motor. This happened to me when the grnd strap at the motor mount failed and I fixed it by adding an 2AWG from the frame to the AC compressor. Third, bad cable from the relay to the starter. Cheap cables corrode under the insulation and become an open circuit when hot.

will e
Posts: 5096
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:21 am

Re: No crank help

Post by will e »

Do you have a multimeter and do you know how to check voltage and resistance?
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
selkplitt
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:30 am

Re: No crank help

Post by selkplitt »

Worked on it this weekend with someone to turn the key finally. Found the relay is fine, but the wire to the solenoid on starter was bad. So I order some wire and will retire it properly. Did a quick fix and it was starting when hot. Hopefully this is it, although every time I thought I found this gremlin, it would give me different symptoms. I will follow up if this did not fix it, but I have my fingers crossed.
89 Grand Wagoneer bone stock
07 Commander 4.7 Rocky Mountain QDII
18 GMC Canyon Denali 2.8 diesel

78 WIDETRAC
Posts: 196
Joined: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:53 am
Location: Portland, Ore

Re: No crank help

Post by 78 WIDETRAC »

selkplitt wrote: Sun Nov 17, 2019 7:02 pm Worked on it this weekend with someone to turn the key finally. Found the relay is fine, but the wire to the solenoid on starter was bad. So I order some wire and will retire it properly. Did a quick fix and it was starting when hot. Hopefully this is it, although every time I thought I found this gremlin, it would give me different symptoms. I will follow up if this did not fix it, but I have my fingers crossed.

That's Great! The one thing I've experienced is that these jeeps need good quality Positive and negative battery & starter cables to avoid aggravating stuff like non hot starts.
91 Grand Wagoneer
89 Grand Wagoneer
80 Golden Hawk
81 Cherokee
Post Reply