Nightmare on wire street.

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Topic author
B-rad
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:58 am

Nightmare on wire street.

Post by B-rad »

Hi gang new to the wagoneer group and I'm dealing with a bunch of shotty wires on a recently purchased 1986 grand wagoneer 5.9 auto the jeep sat for 7 years before I got it I got it cheap enough I figured I'll take a stab at it and see what I can get her to do I kept on having a no start / no click issues one day it would start next day it wouldn't and so on so I wanted to go with a toggle ignition with a push button starter but I'm worried that the wires are to messed up to figure it up without having to redo all of them I see a bad section of wires right by my coil that's needs fíxed as well I was wondering if anybody has a pic of a wired working starter solenoid switch for an 1986 grand wagoneer or any direction In The right way to get everything to run like normal accessories and have my jeep on a toggle ignition switch and a push button starter

will e
Posts: 5096
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:21 am

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by will e »

Howdy from Phoenix and welcome to the board.

How familiar are you with how the starter and ignition wiring works?

I don't think there is a need to go with a push button / toggle switch. Let's figure out what's going on with your electrical first. If it works 'sometimes' then no need to start swapping wires yet. Get it working and then clean up the wiring situation, testing your changes as you go.

So is it in a 'no start' situation at the moment? The first thing I would try is turning on the head lights and then try starting the truck to see if they head lights dim or not.

I also would try starting in Neutral, these have safety switches which don't allow the engine to be cranked if it's not in park or neutral. Another trick is to turn the key and move the transmission lever and see if it cranks. This can indicate a misaligned safety switch.

And there is always taking a wire from the positive side of the battery to the starter side of the solenoid. This will be the small post on the 'battery' side of the solenoid. When you touch the wire the engine should crank regardless of the key being turned on or the position of the transmission. Be very careful, if it cranks and you have the ignition on and the transmission in reverse/drive the truck can move on it's own.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
B-rad
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:58 am

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by B-rad »

Hi and thank you will e thank you for the quick response I would say i know how the starter and ignition works well plus I kinda wanted to go the toggle switch and push button anyways but while I giot your attention I'll give you the rundown 1986 jeep grand wagoneer 5.9 auto currently no start as we speak I know previous owner changed key ignition locks and ignition switch I then bought a accel.coil and new battery and a new ignition module after everything was installed I hit the key and it fired right up after 7 years of sitting so I let it run for 15 mins then turned it off my dad tried rewiriing up the coil nd haven't been able to start it since I checked neutral switch I've tried moving shifter around since being in it tonight I now know he hooked something wrong up as well so could have more problems now but I manage to hook a battery up in it then notice I didn't have the keys in the ignition but the parking brake light was on so then with no keys in the ignition I was able to pop the hood and I had a extra battery negative cable laying around and I touch the starter solenoid on each side and fired right up so it sit running in my drive with no keys in the ignition at all and I pulled the negative cable off battery the only way I could get it to shut off was by pulling the wires off the top of the coil and it killed it

will e
Posts: 5096
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:21 am

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by will e »

When you used the old battery cable to jump the solenoid, did you touch the large posts?

It appears your coil has power to it all of the time. What I would do is use a multimeter to test voltage at the coil. If you have voltage with the ignition off, try removing the small wires on the solenoid and test again. Or trace the coil wires to their source.

You're basically trying to solve two problems: No crank with the key and keeps running even if the key is off. Is this accurate?
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

will e
Posts: 5096
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:21 am

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by will e »

Thinking about it some more. Verify the "I" and "S" wires are not swapped on the starter solenoid. Disconnect them both. Check to see if one wire has continuity with the coil, this should be the "I" wire. Check the other wire to see if it has voltage when the ignition is in the 'crank' position. This should be the "S" wire.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge
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kjandb
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:58 am

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by kjandb »

will e wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:49 pm
I also would try starting in Neutral, these have safety switches which don't allow the engine to be cranked if it's not in park or neutral. Another trick is to turn the key and move the transmission lever and see if it cranks. This can indicate a misaligned safety switch.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've been dealing with an intermittent starting issues and haven't had the time to dig into it yet. But I just tested this theory and it seems to be my issue. I'm in park and nothing cranks when I turn the key. After moving the the shifter in and out of park it works.

Any idea where I can find the transmission switch on a 71' Waggoneer? Or if you can help me with some good 'keywords' I can search around and find old threads - "transmission safety starter switch"?
'71 Wagoneer - 4" BJ's Leaf Lift - early 360 - Avocado Mist ???
S Idaho
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tgreese
Posts: 7118
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 6:31 am
Location: Medford MA USA

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by tgreese »

kjandb wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:03 pm
will e wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:49 pm
I also would try starting in Neutral, these have safety switches which don't allow the engine to be cranked if it's not in park or neutral. Another trick is to turn the key and move the transmission lever and see if it cranks. This can indicate a misaligned safety switch.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've been dealing with an intermittent starting issues and haven't had the time to dig into it yet. But I just tested this theory and it seems to be my issue. I'm in park and nothing cranks when I turn the key. After moving the the shifter in and out of park it works.

Any idea where I can find the transmission switch on a 71' Waggoneer? Or if you can help me with some good 'keywords' I can search around and find old threads - "transmission safety starter switch"?

It's poor forum etiquette to hijack. Instead start a new thread, even better with a descriptive title (ie not "Need help!" or "Repair nightmare!" - something like "1971 Wagoneer neutral safety switch").

Have you looked at the TSM for your year? Any '66-79 TSM covers the TH400 transmission, and there are several available free to read and download here - https://oljeep.com/edge_parts_man.html Suggest you go to page 2C-25 of the '79 TSM at that address.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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tgreese
Posts: 7118
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Location: Medford MA USA

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by tgreese »

tgreese wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 7:17 am
kjandb wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 9:03 pm
will e wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 8:49 pm
I also would try starting in Neutral, these have safety switches which don't allow the engine to be cranked if it's not in park or neutral. Another trick is to turn the key and move the transmission lever and see if it cranks. This can indicate a misaligned safety switch.
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I've been dealing with an intermittent starting issues and haven't had the time to dig into it yet. But I just tested this theory and it seems to be my issue. I'm in park and nothing cranks when I turn the key. After moving the the shifter in and out of park it works.

Any idea where I can find the transmission switch on a 71' Waggoneer? Or if you can help me with some good 'keywords' I can search around and find old threads - "transmission safety starter switch"?

It's poor forum etiquette to hijack. Instead start a new thread, even better with a descriptive title (ie not "Need help!" or "Repair nightmare!" - something like "1971 Wagoneer neutral safety switch").

Have you looked at the TSM for your year? Any '66-79 TSM covers the TH400 transmission, and there are several available free to read and download here - https://oljeep.com/edge_parts_man.html Suggest you go to page 2C-25 of the '79 TSM at that address.
Looking on the '62-73 Jeep Corp J-series parts book (also on the Tom Collins site) all Wagoneers with column mounted shifter except the earliest use a 940234 NSS, presumably on the steering column as in later Jeeps. If your NSS is not broken, you should adjust the switch to align better with the shifter. You should be able to start only in park or neutral, and the switch should work hands-off if the selector is in one of those positions.

This is offered online, incorrectly marked as a directional switch - https://www.willysjeepparts.com/36_37.htm - it's your NSS. Probably the same as some other contemporaneous applications, but the aftermarket sellers are typically clueless about parts for these older J-series vehicles. Note the slotted screw holes, for adjustment to the shifter.
940234.jpg
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Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.
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kjandb
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2021 11:58 am

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by kjandb »

Thanks tgrease, sorry for the hijack, but I appreciate the response. As always, very helpful. And I did look through my service manual but it wasn't as detailed as the '79 manual so thanks for the suggestion.
'71 Wagoneer - 4" BJ's Leaf Lift - early 360 - Avocado Mist ???
S Idaho

Topic author
B-rad
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:58 am

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by B-rad »

Next time make your own thread Instead of trying to step on my nuts and coming from a marine for 19 years quit using the word hijack and your welcome since you got info from my thread

will e
Posts: 5096
Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:21 am

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by will e »

Yeah. I am done.
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
B-rad
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:58 am

Re: Nightmare on wire street.

Post by B-rad »

Hey will e thanks for all your help and information on my issues i appreciate the advice on everything i eventually found out my dad had wires to starter solenoid wrong did some testing fixed it and fired right up thanks again sir
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