Full tear down just for a cam?

[Nikkormat]

Gotta pull the 401 back out and take it down to the builder so he can figure out why the cam thrusted through my timing cover. But now he's jacking me around saying he'll have to do a full tear down and inspection just to figure out what happened; and he wants three weeks to do it!

Is a full tear down even remotely necessary? Does that sound like horse s**t to you or what?

And as for the three weeks... Does he think he can push me back as a priority because "I'm some kid who won't know any better" or is he just slower than molases?

[Stuka]

Well, he is going to have to tear it down at least part way. And keep tearing until he finds the issue. So that part may be valid.

As for three weeks, shrug. It will only take a few hours to pull it apart. Three weeks to get it back in working order would make more sense.


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[Nikkormat]

I could see three weeks if he was pulling it and putting Humpty Dumpty all back together again but all he's getting is my long block. And he only quoted two weeks for a .30 overbored long block from a jeep fresh (oil soaked and grease covered) state.

I don't know. I better just calm down and wait to talk to him in person. Fuming on the internet usually leads nowhere.

Trawling the mother ship and AMC forums leads me to believe that its a combination of problems. Misground cam, improper pressure relief holes, and the cam plug being to deep.

[Regular]

I better just calm down and wait to talk to him in person. Fuming on the internet usually leads nowhere.

That is your best bet at this point. If you are rich, you can just throw money at it and problem solved. If you're on a budget like most folks, it's time to take things slow, work with the guy and find out what the problem was. It was either a part problem or human error. If it turns out to be a part problem, he'll have to go after the manufacturer. If it was human error, hopefully he stands tall and rebuilds it properly at his cost.

Have him lay all the parts out on a table when he has it apart and go and inspect them with him. It may take a couple hours, but you should be able to tell if he's BS'ing. If he slaps the thing back together, you may never know what happened.

In the meantime, it won't hurt to do a lot of reading on engine building so you become even more familiar with the terms, measurements, what's important, etc. There's nothing magic in an engine, so the problem should be simple to find.

[Tatsadasayago]

I will add that after a catastrophic failure like this, it does make good sense to tear down and inspect everything. If one stray chunk of camshaft lobe or shavings from a lifter get into the oil gallery it could kill the engine or seriously reduce it's lifespan.

I would suppose your builder wants enough time to check things out/do it right, while doing other paying work. He already knows he's likely to 'eat' this job as far as revenue.

Being calm but assertive along with understanding and accepting his situation will go a long ways. If everything turns to crap, there is always small claims court. Be sure to photograph EVERYTHING!

[SJTD]

Seems to me you should be at the front of the line. If he's busy he should be staying late to finish your engine.

This isn't a new job; he's already got his money, what do you have?

[68glad]

I will add that after a catastrophic failure like this, it does make good sense to tear down and inspect everything. If one stray chunk of camshaft lobe or shavings from a lifter get into the oil gallery it could kill the engine or seriously reduce it's lifespan.

I would suppose your builder wants enough time to check things out/do it right, while doing other paying work. He already knows he's likely to 'eat' this job as far as revenue.

Being calm but assertive along with understanding and accepting his situation will go a long ways. If everything turns to crap, there is always small claims court. Be sure to photograph EVERYTHING!

x2. Though it will be hard to do, now is not the time to throw an attitude around.

[Tatsadasayago]

And yes, if I was the builder, I would do what had to be done without haste to get that engine back to you. There are very few people these days who understand good customer relations and act accordingly. Maybe your guy is one of those, then again maybe he isn't...

[serehill]

As before when stressed out it's the exact same formula that worked for you last time you were struggling with a mechanic. Pushing, probing, & prodding will only make any human slow down. We just went through this process. It may be the very reason this issue exist. Maybe the problem was because he was in a hurry to finish. Let these guys do what they do. He is probably saying being in a rush rush rush got me into this & I'm going to take my time to ensure I get it right. Quit assuming it's everything in the world it's not an over pressed expansion plug so now one is eliminated for you. This is costing him money & as the last time he has a business to run. If I was him I would definitely slow down. Don't be surprised if it isn't his fault. What you don't want to do at this point is make sure he doesn't want you to come back. That won't work for you. Forcing him to do something is like cussing out a cook that is making your next meal. What attitude do you take when someone pushes you?????

[Tatsadasayago]

X2 what the guy above said.

[Nikkormat]

Would it be to pushy to ask to be there for the tear down? I haven't been invited to be there bit I feel like I should to document it.

[jaber]

I would have no problem asking, but would do it diplomatically...

"Would you mind if I watched you tear into it, I;m just as curious as you..."

[serehill]

Pretty much regurgitating what Jaber said

Yeah a couple of options there. Not trusting the guy is going to take it's toll. That is what he is seeing. This is probably most likely already adversarial. Anyway you do this will be rough. Diplomacy is the best thing.
"If I can't be there can you please take pictures for reference". this is where you need to be in attitude.
I'm new & learning is the attitude. Leave all the speculation that you've picked up on the internet at home. Don't tell him how to do his job. It really depends on how much you have already ruffled his feathers.
A complete breakdown is required.
How well do you work objectively is key? How well do you work with someone breathing down your collar? He knows you don't have a complete ability to be objective & this can only mean trouble for him. You're encouraging this guy to not do the right thing. It doesn't matter what he finds. His judgment is what matters. He doesn't have to agree. There'll be plenty of time to attack him later. Timing is everything.

The best way to get good customer service is to be a good customer.
It's a place where the squeaky wheel gets the shaft.
Trying to force a HUMAN any human to do something usually winds up getting you the opposite.
If he's going to jack you his mind is already made up.
He is not guilty until proven innocent.
My money is on he will show you what he finds. It's the law in this state.

Your brain will document. Even after evidence is presented. The evidence will supply that.
If you do decide to go, operate in receive mode only don't transmit any opinions attitudes or accusations.
There will be plenty of time to make him mad post mortem.

Treat him like you want to be treated. Nothing you can do. Your destiny was developed before he met you. If he's going to jack you it was written in the stars before he knew who you were. The fact he has a shop & a reputation is good. He already knows no matter what, you're going to spread poison about him you're toast. Unfortunately you have to give him the benefit of a doubt.