Tailgate window motor rewire

Modified FSJ Tech Area

Topic author
AMCdealer
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:42 pm
Location: Full-Time RVer

Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by AMCdealer »

Copied from a thread on mine at IFSJA:

I've had a few requests to see what I did when I fixed/rewired the tailgate in the silver Wag. I'm finally posting some stuff!

Backstory: Wag is my dad's that I have on extended loan with the condition that I fix what it needs while I have it. One thing that didn't work when i got it was the tailgate window. When I got to opening it up I found multiple problems. The main problem was the window channel was rusted into what started as two pieces. Got a new one from BJ's and installed it.

Next problem was that the motor wouldn't move from either the key switch or dash switch (safety switch bypassed). When given voltage directly (from a spare battery I had nearby) the motor worked. Could never get the key switch to work, so I decided to forget about that-this tailgate was only going to move via the dash switch.

The three heavy gauge wires in the tailgate all tested good: the +12V hot wire and the two wires which were alternately +12V/ground depending on when the motor was going up or down.

I cut the two motor wires and used them to trigger SPDT relays and tapped the third heavy wire for voltage. I used a third relay to make a single, dedicated 10 ga. ground wire that runs straight to the negative battery terminal. The ideal setup would be a NEW 10 ga. hot wire also direct from the battery (with 30A fuse).

By not having to rely on old, rusty, chassis ground for serious work the tailgate window goes up and down quite briskly now!

For background info on how SPDT relays work, I highly suggest http://www.the12volt.com. There are a lot of cool projects on there using these simple relays.

Diagram:

Image

Picture of relays installed inside the tailgate:

Image

If you want to buy these and don't have any luck at Radio Shack the relays and socket plugs for them are available from http://www.digikey.com.

Also, the terminals are the same on all SPDT relays. In MOST cases, it doesn't matter which low-current side (85 and 86) is voltage or ground. As long as current goes through 85 and 86 it will actuate the high-current switching (87/87a/30). There are a few special cases involving diodes, IIRC. Again, check out http://www.the12volt.com for more info on relays. To clarify, the chassis ground on the top right relay IS NOT connected to terminal 85 on the top left relay.

The third relay is there to make things "neater," IMO. Without it you would need to run 2 ground wires to the battery instead of one OR splice them together (I didn't want to do another splice or worry about ground loops or accidental backflow current). If you need to be cheap and have more wire laying around then fine, you can do it that way, but I had extra relays and prefer to keep things tidy and simple. Each relay cost me about $1, so I thought the extra expense was worth it.

Let me know if you guys have any questions!
AKA "SVO42" at IFSJA
User avatar

ClovisMan
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 8:10 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by ClovisMan »

OOOOHHH...Good write-up and I need to do this. No wif I can just figure out how to subscribe to this thread like on the other board I'll be in business.
88 Grand Wagoneer - The Money Pit - 360/727/NP208 - SOA/SF - Lots of other stuff SOLD
78 Cherokee Chief - Copper - 360/TH400/Quadratrac - 4 inch BDS lift - 33 inch tires SOLD
User avatar

jaber
Vendor
Posts: 3067
Joined: Sat Aug 27, 2011 5:24 pm
Location: Chino Valley, Az.

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by jaber »

ClovisMan wrote:OOOOHHH...Good write-up and I need to do this. No wif I can just figure out how to subscribe to this thread like on the other board I'll be in business.
The little gear button next to your user name at the top of every page. ;)
Jeff

'46 cj3a
'51 Willys p/u
'51 Willys Parkway Conversion
'74 CJ5
'75 J-20 Wrecker
'75 J-20 Cummins service truck
'77 J-10 p/u
'79 Cherokee
'88 Grand Wagoneer
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh14/jeffaber/
User avatar

Strode182
Posts: 374
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2012 8:38 am
Location: Littleton, Co

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by Strode182 »

Cool solution. I'll be studying it. Thanks for posting.

letank
Posts: 4030
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by letank »

You are so gooood.
Found a punch hole at the bottom 1/3 of the tailgate, pulled 2 wires to a dpdt switch and a cigarette lighter plug... works very very well.... and as the PO, my channel was rusted beyond expectation... especially knowing that a year prior the tailgate glass was replaced by a shop.... amazing that they managed to make it ...

Image


Image

Updated links feb 2017 -google has changed the links refs-
Last edited by letank on Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)

serehill
Vendor
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:00 pm
Location: Mesquite Texas

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by serehill »

Why do you use 3 relays? It can be done with 2. Have you ever seen the modular plugs for the bosh relays it makes it a lot simpler to build & replace when one goes bad. Also you can do this with a 3 wire switch which cuts the wiring in half. These three things will cut time money & be more serviceable.

[QUOTE]The ideal setup would be a NEW 10 ga. hot wire also direct from the battery (with 30A fuse).
The only solution is to run the hot & ground to the battery or don't waste your time. The bodies are so rusted corroded a entire new system without positive & ground is a waste.

This statement doesn't make any sense How do you use the motor for control wiring?? You mean the switch to the motor wires coming from the switch?
[QUOTE]I cut the two motor wires and used them to trigger SPDT relays and tapped the third heavy wire for voltage


Those little blue & yellow crimp on connectors won't last long. They are in the tailgate subject to cold water erosion ETC. When they move around they work loose. Solder all connectors that are not termial crimped & then with a proper crimping device. The modular connectors reduce the splices by better than 70%
below: is an example & is a complete replacement.
Notice the modular plugs on the relays.
3 wire dash & tailgate switch get rid of the taigate junk switch for a 3 wire.
Little box on right is control fuse so if you short somthing out the control wire won't burn on a 30 amp fuse. 30 amp fuse on #12 or 14 wire with short = fire. that far away form the battery that is. the little blue & green wire in the picture is fused 30 amps? :shock: they will burn up especially if not fused {Less than 30 amps} in a short.

Image
Great idea put a 30 amp circuit breaker in the + line to keep from burning up your rig. That's the little grey box in the wiring harness. You overload it it resets in a few seconds cheap insurance. That operates the entire controller. Running a # 10 wire from your battery to the tailgate overfused Bad JuJU on smaller wires . More Vehicles burn up from overfused wires than from gas because you can't put out an electrical fire with convetional methods. Looping the tailgate safety switch into the relay coil is very easy.

Yeah I got a dog in this fight but these are the facts.
1980 Honcho 258 4 speed mostly stock with 4 " lift.

WIP

You know the rude dude from IFSJA


1980 Cherokee wrangled & mangled
MSD complete system
Eddy intake
Holley 650
Comp cam 270H
4" Rusty's
Ramsey 12K winch
208
Built to drive not sit in the garage.


No longer strangled. I didn't build it for anyone else.
If you can't improve it why waste your time?
User avatar

HowardT64
Posts: 1536
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:47 am
Location: Athens,Texas

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by HowardT64 »

I am glad I saw this!!! I have been using my portable power
supply to crank the window up and down. I just reverse the
wires to change the polarity.

But that is not what I want. The idea with the ciggie lighter
plug looks like it would work well for me. as I have the switch,
plug and all the wires and connectors.

Thanks for the idea!

Howard
2016 Jeep Patriot
"Faith"
User avatar

HowardT64
Posts: 1536
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:47 am
Location: Athens,Texas

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by HowardT64 »

letank wrote:You are so gooood.
Found a punch hole at the bottom 1/3 of the tailgate, pulled 2 wires to a dpdt switch and a cigarette lighter plug... works very very well.... and as the PO, my channel was rusted beyond expectation... especially knowing that a year prior the tailgate glass was replaced by a shop.... amazing that they managed to make it ...

Image

Image
Could you draw me a diagram for this? I think I will use this :-bd
2016 Jeep Patriot
"Faith"

serehill
Vendor
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:00 pm
Location: Mesquite Texas

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by serehill »

The picture is an excellent diagram. :P
It does not matter which one is positive & which one is negative as long as they come from the plug



Image
Last edited by serehill on Sun May 05, 2013 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1980 Honcho 258 4 speed mostly stock with 4 " lift.

WIP

You know the rude dude from IFSJA


1980 Cherokee wrangled & mangled
MSD complete system
Eddy intake
Holley 650
Comp cam 270H
4" Rusty's
Ramsey 12K winch
208
Built to drive not sit in the garage.


No longer strangled. I didn't build it for anyone else.
If you can't improve it why waste your time?
User avatar

HowardT64
Posts: 1536
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:47 am
Location: Athens,Texas

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by HowardT64 »

Thanks!!!When I see it in a diagram like this I can picture it better
than a photo of the setup for some reason. I will be able to have this
working in no time:)

Ty very much!

Howard :fsj:
2016 Jeep Patriot
"Faith"

serehill
Vendor
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:00 pm
Location: Mesquite Texas

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by serehill »

HowardT64 wrote:Thanks!!!When I see it in a diagram like this I can picture it better
than a photo of the setup for some reason. I will be able to have this
working in no time:)

Ty very much!

Howard :fsj:
Good luck switches make bad motor controls but they are cheap.
1980 Honcho 258 4 speed mostly stock with 4 " lift.

WIP

You know the rude dude from IFSJA


1980 Cherokee wrangled & mangled
MSD complete system
Eddy intake
Holley 650
Comp cam 270H
4" Rusty's
Ramsey 12K winch
208
Built to drive not sit in the garage.


No longer strangled. I didn't build it for anyone else.
If you can't improve it why waste your time?

letank
Posts: 4030
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by letank »

serehill wrote: Those little blue & yellow crimp on connectors won't last long. They are in the tailgate subject to cold water erosion ETC. When they move around they work loose.
Very good point, but my connectors are not in the tailgate, they are resting behind the driver's seat with the cigarette lighter adapter.

It has been harder to find good crimp connectors... any good vendor or brand to recommend? The yellow are not good, but work and the blue are marine grade.

Thank you for posting the schematics, the pict is a bit confusing as the black wires "source" appear on the pict next to the motor feed.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)

serehill
Vendor
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:00 pm
Location: Mesquite Texas

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by serehill »

letank wrote:
serehill wrote: Those little blue & yellow crimp on connectors won't last long. They are in the tailgate subject to cold water erosion ETC. When they move around they work loose.
Very good point, but my connectors are not in the tailgate, they are resting behind the driver's seat with the cigarette lighter adapter.

It has been harder to find good crimp connectors... any good vendor or brand to recommend? The yellow are not good, but work and the blue are marine grade.

Thank you for posting the schematics, the pict is a bit confusing as the black wires "source" appear on the pict next to the motor feed.
Letank I wasn't taliking about your deal I was talking about the relay set up in the first pictures. The thread just comes after yours. T&B are the best connectors although the ones at home depot & lowes & ace are good ones T&B Thomas & Betts make some of the best. I wasn't addressing the ones on your switch though.
1980 Honcho 258 4 speed mostly stock with 4 " lift.

WIP

You know the rude dude from IFSJA


1980 Cherokee wrangled & mangled
MSD complete system
Eddy intake
Holley 650
Comp cam 270H
4" Rusty's
Ramsey 12K winch
208
Built to drive not sit in the garage.


No longer strangled. I didn't build it for anyone else.
If you can't improve it why waste your time?

letank
Posts: 4030
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by letank »

thanks for the update, what about good ratcheting crimpers?
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)

serehill
Vendor
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:00 pm
Location: Mesquite Texas

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by serehill »

Boy I know this one will catch on fire I have found the one pictured is very good for what we do. Some guys went & bought some yesterday & they are on sale 7 dollars. Where Harbor Frieght. I have one. The one I have has completed over 4 thousand crimps & it works fine. It made the crimps in the picture. It's adjustible to make it even more pressure. I love good tools & this one is believe it or not. It competes with 70 dollar + ones. IMHO they are good. I use better crimp lugs than Harbor frieght though. That's just me I can't say HF has bad lugs I've never used them I have a good wholesale access. In a pinch I will use Lowes Home depot & Ace Harware lugs Or termnals ehich ever you want to call it.


I know some jumped the tracks on the one I was using as a comparison but the big red one I posted is the HF model.
1980 Honcho 258 4 speed mostly stock with 4 " lift.

WIP

You know the rude dude from IFSJA


1980 Cherokee wrangled & mangled
MSD complete system
Eddy intake
Holley 650
Comp cam 270H
4" Rusty's
Ramsey 12K winch
208
Built to drive not sit in the garage.


No longer strangled. I didn't build it for anyone else.
If you can't improve it why waste your time?

letank
Posts: 4030
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by letank »

Another hot issue such as oil.... how to get a good connection!

I started to use the non insulated jaw side of the crimper for insulated connectors.... seems to be holding better, but now that I am ready to tackle a more serious ignition supply (relay and 10 gauge wire for the HEI), I want a better tool that does not cost $70. A good vendor from the moto group is out of the crimper at $20, called CR2:

Image
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)

serehill
Vendor
Posts: 1953
Joined: Sun Nov 20, 2011 4:00 pm
Location: Mesquite Texas

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by serehill »

That one is very similar to the one I have. I have a Klien rachet too & they both do about the same Job. Insulated not doesn't matter to me different strokes.
1980 Honcho 258 4 speed mostly stock with 4 " lift.

WIP

You know the rude dude from IFSJA


1980 Cherokee wrangled & mangled
MSD complete system
Eddy intake
Holley 650
Comp cam 270H
4" Rusty's
Ramsey 12K winch
208
Built to drive not sit in the garage.


No longer strangled. I didn't build it for anyone else.
If you can't improve it why waste your time?
User avatar

HowardT64
Posts: 1536
Joined: Sun May 05, 2013 2:47 am
Location: Athens,Texas

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by HowardT64 »

I am trying to find the picture of the diagram that LeTank posted, but it is not available anymore. Does anyone have a copy?
2016 Jeep Patriot
"Faith"

letank
Posts: 4030
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:16 pm
Location: SF bay area

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by letank »

HowardT64 wrote:I am trying to find the picture of the diagram that LeTank posted, but it is not available anymore. Does anyone have a copy?
Here we go, I guess the older links are messed up,

Image

Image

pm if you need more
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (229 Kmiles... the running test lab)
User avatar

ClovisMan
Posts: 346
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 8:10 am
Location: New Braunfels, TX

Re: Tailgate window motor rewire

Post by ClovisMan »

Here is the 30 amp switch to do the above rewire.
https://www.amazon.com/DPDT-Momentary-O ... B001PNO4OE
88 Grand Wagoneer - The Money Pit - 360/727/NP208 - SOA/SF - Lots of other stuff SOLD
78 Cherokee Chief - Copper - 360/TH400/Quadratrac - 4 inch BDS lift - 33 inch tires SOLD
Post Reply