High Steer question

[Jeffsj]

I am doing the Spring Over Axle swap in my Cherokee and I have a set of flat top knuckles with new steering arms. My question is about the fact that the new steering arms angle in by what looks to be about an inch or so from where the original arms are. I understand it is to clear the tire, but I wonder if this will cause me to need to shorten the drag link? It doesn't look like I have enough adjustment in the tierod end to make up the difference. If I do need to shorten it, what is the best way to safely do this? Will the drag link from a narrow track work to make up the difference?

[jaber]

I believe that most guys that go full high steer build new links with weld in bungs so they can step them up to 1 ton ends. They are beefier.

You can also use your stock link in the stock holes, and just build one arm from the steering box to the passy side. Might save some coin until you can get the other one built.

[Tad]

Does your passenger side high steer arm have one or two holes for the tie rod ends?
And
What size taper were the holes in the high steer arms for the tie rod ends setup for?
Or
Are the holes not tapered for TRE's (straight drilled for bolts with hiem joints)?

Those 3 items determine what you can do and how you can do it.

Generally,
Your tie rod will be too long to move up to the high steer arms (you already noticed they angle in a bit). You can leave it the stock holes as Jeff mentioned and just build a new drag link (your stock one will be to short to reach the arm) Cross Over Steering.

If you only have one TRE hole in the passenger side arm and you want to move the tie rod up for Full High Steering you will need a Y Link setup just like your factory one but at the proper dimensions.

If you have two holes for TRE's in the passenger side high steer arm you can have separate drag link and tie rod, I like this setup the best as it has better spring clearance.

[Jeffsj]

These are the knuckles and arms I have. They have the tapered holes for the factory setup. I will be keeping the original Y setup. Is it possible to cut the original tierod and have it threaded on the passenger side to accept another tierod end, like on the driver's side? That would work great right now, because both ends are pretty loose and need to be replaced anyway.

[Tad]

I'm thinking you don't have enough material between the tie rod hole for the drag link and the end to do that.
But I am so far removed from the stock steering setup I have not even seen one in over 7 years.

Since you are looking at replacing worn items the Moog parts are running about:
Long/Right tie rod ~ $70
Short/Left TRE ~ $45
Short Pitmam TRE ~ $33
Long Pitman TRE ~ $42
I know that does not get your task done but with all new stock parts in the $190 range + shipping I think it makes sense to take the leap and build your own.
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Ste ... _1338.html
There are cheaper vendors out there, that's just an example.
But what that does give you is very solid construction and TRE's that can be purchased in any town that has a population over 15K or so.

[Jeffsj]

Thanks Tad and looking at the tierod again, I think you're right. Not enough room for a tierod end. On the new setup, would I just have the Y joint moved further inboard to accommodate the end?

[Tad]

When you buy a kit like that, the TRE on the right/passenger side contains the tapered hole for the drag link TRE, so it's really just basic math at that point.
You build the tie rod first to the correct length, then the drag link.
Ballistic mentions the pitman arm needing to be reamed.
My experience was different.
I ran a PartsMike setup on my D44, for that I bought a SnapOn reamer and did the pitman arm.
For my D60 with the Ballistic parts I had to go find a stock pitman arm, it did not require reaming.

The reamer has almost tripled in price since 2006, I'll be happy to send it up to you if you find you need one. It's been on both coasts and a few other places since then.

[Jeffsj]

Thanks a lot Tad! I will let you know what happens. I am ready to be DONE with this project! I just want to drive it again. Seems like I keep running into walls here. I'm hoping to move onto the shackle flip next. I Hope that goes smoothly.

[Tad]

It's sort of hard for me to keep tack of because there are so many.
I'm Tad from TT's.
If it is my kit please email me or post up here.
If not email me/post here anyway.
I don't try to hide anything and I am always willing to help no matter no matter how you started out on this project.

[Jeffsj]

It IS your kit, Tad... I used your SOA kit and steering brace as well. I have been taking pics and plan to post on here. I just haven't had time yet. So far, I love all the stuff I've gotten from you. The directions were very clear. I don't anticipate any problems from your shackle flip kit either. One question I have for you though is on the front axle droop. It droops like 6-1/2"! Is that normal and will I be able to find affordable shocks with that kind of travel? If so, it sure seems like this thing will be an articulating beast! Thanks for the offer with help. I will let you know how it goes.

[Tad]

The droop is normal and the articulation is great.
You will want to lower you front bump stops or go with some progressive rate bump stops.



My placement is a bit different due to me having an older '63-'73 frame.
Shocks are not that hard to find, I'll dig up the chart.

Are you running stock front springs or something else?

[Tad]

Here is the spreadsheet with Rancho shock sizes: http://www.ttsfabworks.com/tech/Rancho% ... 0Sizes.xls

It's a bit old and many of the part numbers have changed but any decent shop will be able to cross-reference to the newer numbers.
I'm not endorsing Rancho, the spreadsheet was compiled from several sources and eliminates models that do not fit our mounts.
They can be cross-referenced to other brands easily.

[Jeffsj]

Thanks for the info! I am running stock 7 leaf springs from an 87 Grand Wagoneer. I hope I don't sound stupid here, but why do we still need bumpstops with the amount of travel we have? I can't imagine ever flexing far enough to hit the frame. Is it just bad for the springs to flex that far or will it bottom the shocks?

[Tad]

Our front spring were simply not designed to handle the forces applied in an SOA situation.
If you let them compress too much they will eventually bend, usually at the rear spring eye.
Our stock springs are also 20+ years old no matter what they came from.

Some folks run custom packs or the Rancho 44044 front springs with a semi military wrap.
That gives you about 1 1/2"-2" of extra lift, but they are good springs and work well.
What a lot of folks (including myself) have done is take another set of front springs, remove the main leaves, cut the spring eyes off as far out as you can, and insert that spring under the main springs of the packs.

It's not a perfect solution but it provides extra support and extends the life of the stock spring packs.

[Mr. Goatman]

Here is the kit I used
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/cat ... GMSTE.html

You can't see the knuckle end to know that it has 2 holes in the arm. They also have they Y style available. I thought about threading a stock TR but in the end the parts come out to be very close to the same price and this kit has replaceable ends without additional machine work.

[Jeffsj]

Thanks for the info guys! Tad, I just happen to have my old set of springs. The main springs are a bit bent, but maybe they would still help me out for that application. Mr. Goatman, do you mind me asking what springs YOU are running? I like the way you have a secondary spring that extends past the eyelets. does it do that at both ends? That has GOT to help prevent bending.

[AwesomeJ10]

Our front spring were simply not designed to handle the forces applied in an SOA situation.
If you let them compress too much they will eventually bend, usually at the rear spring eye.
Our stock springs are also 20+ years old no matter what they came from.

Some folks run custom packs or the Rancho 44044 front springs with a semi military wrap.
That gives you about 1 1/2"-2" of extra lift, but they are good springs and work well.
What a lot of folks (including myself) have done is take another set of front springs, remove the main leaves, cut the spring eyes off as far out as you can, and insert that spring under the main springs of the packs.

good advice.

I thought I would lend some recent experience with SOA front springs. Had some 2" BJ's on the Honcho (tons on 42's) and beat on em for 4 years with no problem other than a little sag. Broke the driver side at Las Cruces last year. Replaced them with some brand new Rancho 44044's. Wheeled on those rancho 44044's about 5 times, including a week at the dunes. No major jumps, but lots of speed across the whoops. Broke the 6 month old driver side 44044 last weekend doing some rock crawling (while going to fast ). Also stripped out the passenger side studs that go into the D60 housing. Made for an interesting 100 mile drive home

I think the moral of the story is that yes, stock FSJ springs will work in an SOA application. But if you beat on 'em much, you better carry a spare

[Jeffsj]

The hits just keep coming!!! So, I just received my new steering kit from WFO Concepts and the drag link ends are right, but the 2 tierod ends just fall into the holes in the steering arms! I guess Chevy's have smaller holes in the steering arms? Has anyone else had this problem? I'm about to lose my mind on this project!

[pcoplin]

Thinking about swapping the wife's to an SOA. Does anyone make SOA Waggy front springs with the eyes inverted? Allows for arch without 2.5 inches of lift. I've heard of National making these for a YJ.

[Tad]

The hits just keep coming!!! So, I just received my new steering kit from WFO Concepts and the drag link ends are right, but the 2 tierod ends just fall into the holes in the steering arms! I guess Chevy's have smaller holes in the steering arms? Has anyone else had this problem? I'm about to lose my mind on this project!

Sending you a PM.