84 Grand Wagoneer Revival

[tgreese]

Maybe too much advance? The cam can increase the effective compression. You could try disconnecting the spark when the engine is hot and see if it cranks normally then.

Starters get old. Windings are stressed and resistances increase. Copper accumulates tiny stresses as it ages. New starters are available, less than $100 at RockAuto. Might be worth investigating.

[devildog80]

I have checked all that, replaced the OEM starter with a new one (not rebuilt) from Rock Auto just a few months back. Timing - tried it from 5-12*, and seems to run best at 8-9*. Still need to figure out compression ratio, as I did get a lot of paperwork with the truck, but suspect engine rebuild might be higher than stock. Paperwork did not indicate anything more than OEM build. Will find out, as it has a lot of horses when you put the skinny pedal to the floor, even running the 2 bbl MC2150.
Thanks Tim for feedback.

[tgreese]

NP, glad if I could help. An old racer's trick puts a toggle switch on the dash that disconnects the ignition. When the engine is hot and cranking is hard, turn the switch off to start the engine spinning. Then turn the ignition on while cranking, adding the inertia of the rotating assembly to the starter motor power.

[devildog80]

Interesting......
Wrapping my head around that.....it hurts :/
Probably what they did before gear reduction starters were more available.

[SJTD]

Good idea. Keeps the plug from firing on the up stroke before the motor's got some inertia built up.

[devildog80]

So put the switch on the coil feed, so engine has no spark when you initially turn the engine over, then flip the switch after the engine is rotating?

[tgreese]

Yes. Realize, while cranking, the coil feed is connected both through the ignition switch via the resistance wire (ballast resistor) and via the starter switch directly through the starter solenoid. You could break a single wire by putting your switch between the coil and the ignition module, breaking the green coil ground wire that switches the coil.

[Yeller]

When starting the engine hot the
Parts have expanded tightening the sealing capability of the rings. The heat also makes the fuel combust easier. The ignition fires before top dead center. The starter is hot reducing its efficiency. This all adds up to increased compression and reduced starter performance making the engine harder to turn over. Turning the ignition off during cranking stops the additional compression added by the spark happening allows the engine to turn over easier. Once it is spinning with the starter turn on the ignition and the engine starts.

[devildog80]

That is a smooth move someone figured out right there, and so easy to do.

I did go out and battery had charged for 7 hrs from this morning, after tightening the ground terminal that was loose, and engine spun cold really good. I had been working on the choke setting last couple of days, so running just a few minutes at a time thinking alternator was charging the battery, but was not due to loose terminal. Alternator is now charging again, battery has full charge, so runs like it should.
Will look into the cut out switch for the coil and see if that resolves my hot start issue, before diving down the rabbit hole for gear reduction starter.
Thanks to both for input. Very helpful

[SJTD]

That ignition cutoff switch. It reminds me of a compression release on a Diesel.

[devildog80]

Changed engine oil @ 6 qts and put the 15-40w diesel truck oil back in.

Cleaned up the 4 bbl intake, so ready to go in, after a few days to let it dry really well.

[devildog80]

Ok....searched the web for a few hours now, and not finding what I am looking for.

'84 GW w/727 auto trans/NP229 transfer case......my dash 4x4 switch is not holding vacuum, and verified the "softball" vac source is providing. Took switch off and tested with a hand vacuum, but holds nothing.
Has anyone rebuilt/salvaged the dash switch, so it will hold vacuum?
I know these are not available for a replacement part, so working to refurbish if possible, and looking for some guidance if its out there.
Not afraid to dig in, and McGyver it to work, but previous experience from someone who has traveled this path is priceless.

[Sarahclark]

I think I just need to get my posting count up to ??, so I can post pics.

What I have tried, even my avatar pic, says file too big, so I need to figure out here to get pics posted.

I have a build thread on the Jeep Forum - FSJ threads, with same title as this one, and want to try and get same pics put on this one. Viberate

For sharing your build thread pics, you could try using an image hosting service like Imgur or Flickr to upload your photos and then share the links here. That way, you can show off your Jeep build without worrying about file size restrictions.

[devildog80]

Removed old tach from steering column and mounted new tach on "A" pillar.

20240106_172340 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[devildog80]

Took the 4x4 selector switch off the dash and broke it down to see if anything needing replaced.

Seems the pieces are only metal to metal, and no gasket or diaphragm used for vacuum in the valve. Cleaned it up, sprayed with Lithium grease, reassembled. Again, just like gauge cluster in the dash, the plastic where the switch mounts into, was slowly breaking apart in little pieces. Enough left I was able to modify the switch mounting to the plastic with an additional washer, so it would hold in place.

Now onto checking vac lines.

Switch
20240112_161442 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Selector top & bottom view of same piece
20240112_161422 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr
20240112_161407 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[devildog80]

Update

Unknown year 401 in my '84 Grand Wagoneer. Primary use will be as a tow unit for pulling camper, or hiway miles driving, with light trail use for old fart dirt cruises.
OEM 2 bbl intake being swapped out for 4 bbl Edelbrock AMC Performer 2131.

Here is my ask......the heat shield that screws on the bottom side of OEM cast intake.....is it recommended to transfer that over to the Edelbrock?
I bought the 2131 used, and looks like the screw holes for that shield have never been used, so thinking the heat shield is not needed/used? Bought it from an old AMC guy, and said he had that intake on a lot of different engines.

My 401 when rebuilt by PO, has the alternate oil feed tube installed, and PO needed to create room for that shield to not interfere with the oil line in the bottom area of the intake cavity. He hammered a path across the heat shield to fit the oil line.

OEM 2 bbl intake removed

20240222_160532 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Pics of valley block castings. Heard tell the casting numbers on top of block here will tell you what year the engine is? Anybody know?

20240223_171150 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20240223_171202 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20240223_171220 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20240223_171240 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

​Have the intake installed and now working on carb connections needed to adapt to the '84 GW connections. Need to figure out vac deletes and needs as taking off emissions stuff with the aluminum intake vs OEM. Losing air pump into exhaust, EGR, reposition PVC, losing 2 CTO valves, then small vac lines need sorted for distributor, vac ball on firewall, brake booster, etc.


Here are pics of progress so far with test fit of carb to be sure room for vac connections etc.

Valley pan in place waiting for a little more goop and intake, and copper oil line mod reconnected

20240227_152237 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

2131 intake installed

20240227_164952 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Intake shield in place

20240227_141723 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Valley pan part #

20240222_161554 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

Carb test fit with spacer

20240227_170624 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[devildog80]

Edelbrock clone by this name is what I am currently working with.

20240228_152904 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[devildog80]

Carb is on....WOOHOO!
So close to the hood I had to swap out the Edelbrock wingnut for the old one off the MC2150. Wings were too tall to fully close the hood.

Now to get linkage set up including throttle cable bracket and auto trans kick down. Wire loop about 3-4 inches too short and won't allow the carb to function at full throttle. Then vac, heating/cooling, plug wires, electrical, fuel supply.

20240301_185457 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

20240301_185532 by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr

[devildog80]

I hope it works as good as it looks, but this is wayyyyy more bling than I like on my engines, but if it works.......
Need to get it running, so I can get some mud and oil splashed around on it, to make it look normal. Have some new vac lines coming today

Also
Found out this is what 401 block I have. Maybe why it has so much oomph as it might be an earlier year casting. Notice how the hp drops as years go on.
Note - the block casting is found behind the drivers side head where the bell housing bolts on.

3198951 401 71-78

Could be an early production with these stats
1971 Horsepower Torque
401-4B (early) 335 (250) @ 5000 435 (590) @ 3400 10.2:1 4.165 (105.8) 3.68 (93.5)
401-4B (late) 330 (246) @ 5000 430 (583) @ 3400 9.5:1
OR

1972
401-4B 235 (175) @ 4600 4.165 (105.8) 3.68 (93.5)

1973
401-4B 235 (175) @ 4600 4.165 (105.8) 3.68 (93.5)

1974
401-4B 235 (175) @ 4600 4.165 (105.8) 3.68 (93.5)

1975
401-4B 255 (190) @ 4600 345 (468) @ 3300 4.165 (105.8) 3.68 (93.5)

1976
401-4B 215 (160) @ 4200 320 (434) @ 2800 4.165 (105.8) 3.68 (93.5)

1977
401-4B 195 (145) @ 3500 305 (413) @ 2800 4.165 (105.8) 3.68 (93.5)

1978 - no stats posted
401-4B 4.165 (105.8) 3.68 (93.5)

[devildog80]

The block casting numbers are on the back of the block, above the bell housing, on driver side just behind the head.
3195529 401 72-76
3198951 401 71-78
3414725 401 72-74
3220411 401 75-78
4488874 401 71-76
3195528 390,401 70-80

401 Block casting number location by Scott Weckerly, on Flickr