Full Size Jeep Network

I've finally started accumulating the rarer parts to make this build possible. So I need to write this stuff down and quit chasing my tail.

The Jeep: My new 1990 Grand Wagoneer, stock for now.



The Plan For Now: Aero Tanks 33 gallon gas tank, razor grill, third row seat, rear traction aid, rock sliders, front recovery points, pass emissions.

The Long Term Goals: Isolated dual batteries, 4 wheel disk brakes, ample lighting, rear power and heat, cup holders, some sort of load compensation system, Fuel Injected 401! Or a stroked 360! hooked to 700r4-NP242-4.88's, lift and bigger tires.

Parts acquired list: Gas tank, working tailgate, razor grill hood, front fenders, windshield, clean straight bumpers, THIRD ROW SEAT!!!!

Still need: Clean front valance, razor grill setup, rear traction aid.

This should be cool! What's the weight compensation system for?

No on board welder?

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You have been reading way too many posts on expeditionportal.com. Skip the Black Box junk and just go with 3.73 axle gears. I had a crawl box on my CJ and rarely used it, but used it more than my ARB's. The old three speed autos are REALLY good at off roading. Just need to keep them cool. Adding a crawl box defeats some of the advantages of an auto, not to mention making it much harder to stop. When I used the crawl box in my CJ I had to sometimes put the transmission in neutral to stop, and I was using FSJ brakes. Save the money from not getting the crawl box and lockers and get a winch and recovery gear and a good limited slip. Skip the extra gas tank and get some gas cans. If you need water, they have these things called water jugs that are portable and can be removed when not needed. Again, watching too many Wrangler videos.

Just my .05 cents.

Adventure_Wagon88 wrote:This should be cool! What's the weight compensation system for?

Some helper spings or air bags. An extra 40 gallons of gas and two people should put me on the overload leaves without a custom spring pack. And I intend to still be able to tow with this thing.

Get the Monroe shocks with the extra 500# weight limit. I use those on the back of my jeep, and I tow a 4000# camper

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GaJeep94YJ wrote:No on board welder?

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I don't intend to let Blake wheel it, so I shouldn't need one.

csuengr wrote:You have been reading way too many posts on expeditionportal.com. Skip the Black Box junk and just go with 3.73 axle gears. I had a crawl box on my CJ and rarely used it, but used it more than my ARB's. The old three speed autos are REALLY good at off roading. Just need to keep them cool. Adding a crawl box defeats some of the advantages of an auto, not to mention making it much harder to stop. When I used the crawl box in my CJ I had to sometimes put the transmission in neutral to stop, and I was using FSJ brakes. Save the money from not getting the crawl box and lockers and get a winch and recovery gear and a good limited slip. Skip the extra gas tank and get some gas cans. If you need water, they have these things called water jugs that are portable and can be removed when not needed. Again, watching too many Wrangler videos.

Just my .05 cents.

As always I value your opinion because you're one of the few who actually speak from experience, but I respectfully disagree.

Going to 3.73 gears would put me at the same crawl speed in first gear low range as I would have in the Cherokee. That's perfect for when I need more wheelspeed stuck in the snow or playing in the sand/mud but even without being loaded down the Cherokee has never had enough low range for descents. In Moab and even the runs in Ouray I was overheating my brakes on the way down. And that was without the extra weight the Wagoneer is expected to carry.

At 3200 rpm the Cherokee would be going 12mph in low range, the Wagoneer with underdrive would be going 4.75 mph. Much more controllable.

I've been stopping in neutral when in low range since I started wheeling the Cherokee. That would be no different to me.

The winch and recovery gear will come before the low range and lockers. Probably before the lift.

The aux tank wouldn't have to be filled when I wouldn't need it. But I don't want to stop to put in Jerry cans on the side of the highway. I want 700 miles of range, and I should just squeak past that with both tanks. That could put me in Salt Lake or Las Vegas without stopping.

On board water doesn't mean a JK shower. I want a few gallons of water under the floor outside the frame on the passenger side. I want some gasoline over there too. That way it's out of the passenger area and out of the way till I need it. And not permanently mounted up on the roof like some sort of JK owner.

Nikkormat wrote:

GaJeep94YJ wrote:No on board welder?

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I don't intend to let Blake wheel it, so I shouldn't need one.

huh

I don't have an on board welder either. (I keep it in the toolbox in the dually)

Can't wait to see it come together! If you get around to it can you fix the broken images above too?

BRUTUS wrote:Can't wait to see it come together! If you get around to it can you fix the broken images above too?

They're working for me, are you behind a firewall? Some employers block my hosting site.

Blake wrote:

Nikkormat wrote:

GaJeep94YJ wrote:No on board welder?

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I don't intend to let Blake wheel it, so I shouldn't need one.

huh

I don't have an on board welder either. (I keep it in the toolbox in the dually)

Just making sure but... You know that's a joke right? You can wheel it as long as you promise not to jump it, I don't want to truss the 44's.

Doesn't sound all that simple.

j20owner wrote:Doesn't sound all that simple.

Aside from the shackle flip (which is very easy) everything is bolt on. I guess that is my idea of simple, not alot of fab work or sourcing custom parts.

EDIT: The plan in this post was canceled, it was no longer necessary with the new 1990 wagoneer.

From what I remember, the deep 727 pans don't fit on a Waggy. You don't need one anyway. A good external cooler is cheaper and more effective. You also don't need extra capacity. The weakness of the TF727 is the location of the vent hole. It is also easy to put a drain plug in the stock pan. Summit has the starter relays for about $10 less. They are actually a Chrysler part. Almost $1000 for an exhaust. I would think harder about that one and not be distracted by shinny things.

I though you would bring up the downhill thing with the crawl box. If that really is an issue, then go with 3.73 or better yet, 3.92 axle gears. Your engine and transmission will thank you. There rarely was a time in Ouray where I used first gear going down hill. Mostly used second and third, which equates to first and second in an auto.

For exhaust, I bought a new 2.5 inch y-pipe, converter, muffler, and a tailpipe for about 200.00 on rockauto. Two straight sections of 2.5 inch pipe at Oreilly's is like 12 bucks and thats everything you need besides headers which you can reuse your stock ones. Long tubes are nice on a NA race car with nitrous but are not needed or even useful on a GW.

ClovisMan wrote:For exhaust, I bought a new 2.5 inch y-pipe, converter, muffler, and a tailpipe for about 200.00 on rockauto. Two straight sections of 2.5 inch pipe at Oreilly's is like 12 bucks and thats everything you need besides headers which you can reuse your stock ones. Long tubes are nice on a NA race car with nitrous but are not needed or even useful on a GW.

exhaust.JPG

Good to see Walker got rid of the ugly rust prone wrinkle bends! Looks like they really reduced the tube size though. Probably fine for most applications.

The headers sadly don't come in colors other than chrome. New manifolds will cost me $240. I was quoted $300 for a 2.25" into 3" y pipe and another $500 for 3" back to the exit. That includes cat and muffler, but it's still expensive for a product of unkown quality. And last time they welded hangers to my frame! The Walker Y pipe and tailpipe certainly save enough money to make them an attractive option. And they would also keep me out of the exhaust shop. I'll have to see if I can get my hands on one to look at that is certainly an option. Thanks!

I may be able to help you some with the black box...i think.
I got one in my scrambler between the nv4500 and the dana 300. I ordered the triple shifter and cables but didn't use the single shifter that came with the BB.
My concern is length. Auto and bb and a 208 with no SYE gonna make that rear shaft pretty short.
I like having the 2x low range the BB offers. Let me keep 4.10s in the cj on 35s, run the highway and still crawl when needed.
Let me know if you need the shifter and I'll try and dig it and the cables out of storage at some point.

Also, you'll probably want to add additional crossmember support before/after the BB. Lots of free hanging weight and torque could split the tranny or t case.

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Man! That thing is long! Might need to look into a bronco 20 and there new compact black box to make it short enough to fit with the stock gas tank.