Timing cover installation - in-car. Tips?

[AtlantaDan]

My old timing cover is leaking at the plug on top of the oil pump housing, so I bought a new kit from Bulltear. Also going to install a DUI distributor and a new cam-gear at the same time. For the lower part of the cover, I assume the oil pan needs to be dropped a bit. What's the best way to seal it back up? Do I also need to install a new pan-gasket or can I let it ride?

I'm a complete newbie to AMC 360's, so learning a lot as I go and this forum's assistance has been invaluable.

[tgreese]

The procedure is covered in the TSM. If there are extra steps involved that a dealership technician would need to know about, they will list them there. Won't teach you to work on cars though. Page 9-156. Free to read and download at the Tom Collins site. https://oljeep.com/

TSM.png

No need to drop the oil pan. If you look at the picture of the gasket set for timing cover you will see the parts of the oil pan seal you need to replace. The TSM covers this. https://www.rockauto.com/info/6/SFL_TCS ... 04_TOP.jpg

[AtlantaDan]

Thanks, Tim. I have the FSM, but as with any job, hearing from someone that's done the work is always beneficial before starting something that you are unfamiliar with. I appreciate your input.

Won't teach you to work on cars though.

Apologies if I came off as a complete noob when it comes to working on cars. I think my 30 years of turning wrenches, ASE creds, and iCar platinum certification has gotten me pretty far. My current employer at the shop would also vouch for me, as one of two full-time mechanics.

ASE and iCar's workflows both start with "know the job". A good tech's first step in any repair is research and education and I am far too old and too experienced to think I know it all. That sort of mindset can get very expensive, very quickly. I'll never fault someone for asking for input or assistance. I will ding someone for not doing so if they should have.

Thanks again for your continued assistance as I learn more about these AMC/Jeep vehicles.

[tgreese]

Sorry if my reply came off curt or dismissive. The TSM is pretty good for this kind of thing; they get thicker and more detailed as the years go by. The '89 book even gives instructions depending on the type of gasket sealer you will use (Perm #2 or RTV). Maybe the techs were expected to cover increasingly more platforms, or maybe they were getting less and less competent as years passed ... can only speculate why the books improved.

Yeah, takes a while for the regulars to get to know new people, I suppose. No reflection on you. I'm often guilty of writing too much, I suppose. Comes easy to me.

A common complaint that the factory books don't explain enough ... well yeah, their audience is the dealership employees (parts and service) and some familiarity is assumed. Thought I would mention that.

Confession - I have not done this job - seen it done when I worked at a dealership - but I know that you cut the oil pan gasket off and use the gasket pieces in the gasket set. I'd also guess the usual issues with the bolts apply here. I'd probably buy a heat induction tool since it's within my means.

[will e]

Take pictures before you start and a couple of short videos too. And more pictures/video as you go along.
As you remove each timing cover bolt place it into the corresponding hole in the new cover on the bench.
When you have the old cover off, move the bolts to the old cover. This will greatly help avoid confusion on where each bolt goes.

[Stuka]

I would suggest pulling the pan. The chance of getting a seal after lower it enough to get the timing cover off is next to zero.

I always had the best luck using the single piece blue rubber gasket. And it will give you a good chance to clean any gunk out of the pan and inspect the cylinders from below.

Be sure to pack the oil pump full of petroleum jelly. It won't pull oil up if it isn't primed.

[AtlantaDan]

Sorry if my reply came off curt or dismissive.

No worries, Tim. You've been super helpful in these threads and it's impossible to suss-out intent online. I appreciate your insight.

I always had the best luck using the single piece blue rubber gasket.

@stuka Where did you source the blue seal? All I am finding online are the three piece cork ones. Even Summit only shows the corks. Thanks!

[Stuka]

@stuka Where did you source the blue seal? All I am finding online are the three piece cork ones. Even Summit only shows the corks. Thanks!

Ah, I am confusing the i6 gasket with the v8 gasket.

The v8 gasket is four pieces.

[AtlantaDan]

Update/recap for future reference:
The job itself is not difficult, but it is time consuming if done correctly. I installed the Bulltear timing cover with the pre-fitted and pre-lapped oil pump gears and housing. All-in, it took me a solid weekend but I was also converting the car over to a DUI electronic HEI, installing a new fuel pump, new alternator and installing a 5-relay distribution box. The tips below are based on how we work at my shop. The mantra "the poor man pays twice" applies in these jobs. Do it right the first time and you'll save money in the long run by not having to go back in there and correct something thats failed. NOTE - the harmonic balancer is larger than the cheapo puller toolsets available at the parts stores. I have a Harbor Freight puller/installer set ($80) and it's paid for itself many, many times over and is equal to the SnapOn kit at 10x the price.

Some tips:
1. Gaskacinch is a great product and one I've been using in the shop for many years. Makes assembly a lot easier.
2. Bulltear's timing cover is a very nice piece and worth its price given the work that's done to them.
3. Pull a valve cover at the start of the job. Reasoning below.
4. Discharging the ac is not necessary. You can swing the compressor over to the passenger side and get enough clearance to comfortably work. Be careful to not bend or break the aluminum lines at the compressor.
5. Create a bolt-map. I used one piece of paper with a crude drawing of each part that was removed and placed the bolts in the dots on the corresponding map. You may think you'll remember where they all go. You won't.
6. Before you pull the distributor, go ahead and set the engine to #1 TDC. Mark the position of the rotor on the distributor housing and mark the position of the distributor shaft to the block. It will make installation and initial fire easier.
7. Go ahead and remove the radiator. It's not necessary but makes the job easier by providing more room.
8. If your water pump is old, go ahead and spring for a replacement. It's cheap insurance. Same with your fan clutch and radiator hoses.
9. Get a tap and die and run through all the bolts and bolt holes while everything is apart. Now is the time to address any stripped threads. Helicoils or TimeSerts are your friend.
10. No need to drop the oil pan - just remove the two front bolts that thread into the timing cover. You will have to cut the front ears off the existing oil pan gasket and replace them with new cut-to-size segments that come with the FelPro t-cover kit.
11. Remove the lower driver's side alignment pin from the block when the t-cover is off. You will drive it back through once the cover is installed. (I think this is part of the FSM instructions, but not sure...)
12. No better time to check dizzy gear and timing gear/chain. Replace if needed.
13. Put a bead of RTV at the lower corner of the timing cover where it meets the oil pan and new/cut pan gasket segments. Let it set up for 15 minutes or so BEFORE torquing to spec. Then let it cure for 24 hours. The main reasons people have leaks with RTV is because they don't let it set before torque, and don't let it fully cure before subjecting to use.
14. On reinstallation of the cover, align the upper left guide pin, push the timing cover into position and then use the pan bolts to SLOWLY pull the cover down into place. Use one of the water pump-to-block bolts as a guide to let you know when it's been pulled down enough. Tighten one lower pan bolt slightly, then the other, then go back to the other side and tighten a little more, then back to the other and do the same. Rinse/repeat until aligned, then torque the remaining front bolts to spec, and lastly - the front pan bolts. Then drive the lower pin back into place. Tightening the pan bolts last ensures a good seal and a good bond with the RTV.
15. Use the proper torque on all of the bolts. "Gudentight" is a quick way to pull threads out and ruin your hard work. An inch-pound torque wrench is required for the oil pump housing. I like to let my gaskets sit for a while - usually overnight - and then check torque/re-torque. More often than not, they've relaxed a bit.
16. Blue locktite on the timing chain/cam gear bolt if you remove it.
17. Use a drill with an SBC oil pump primer to prime the oil pump. Use a low-speed/high torque drill. Watch for oil at the rockers. When you see it, it's primed. Others have used petroleum jelly and the starter, but my preference is to use the prime tool.
18. A vacuum filler for the coolant isn't necessary, but sure makes the job easier and ensures no air pockets remain in the block which can create hot spots. Use new coolant unless the stuff that came out is recent.

While you've got everything apart, clean clean clean and inspect everything for wear. Worn parts should be replaced - especially timing chain/gear and distributor drive gear. I used the MSD gear. Inspect the steering components too, now that you can get a 360 degree view. Inspect the lines at the steering pump since you'll be moving it out of the way. Replacements are cheap and readily available.