Need help with "BARN FIND" 1986 Jeep Grand Wagoneer A/T AMC 360

[Sir Chomps]

Noob here! Hope I'm posting to the right place. Needing help on my recently purchased 1986 Jeep Grand Wagoneer. Basically stock as best I can tell. Original AMC 360(211,000 mi) 2bbl carb. Not sure which carb, will attach pic of only tag I can find,can't make it out.

A little background. She's been sitting for 12-15 years. The owners widow said she was running when parked,as best she knew, I have no reason to think she wasn't being honest. She wanted it moved out of the yard, was reason for selling. There was signs that mice or squirrels may have nested under the hood. I only see one wire,so far showing evidence of gnawing, and that is on the A/C compressor ground wire.

What I've done so far, Checked all the fluids, Anti-freeze,oil,tranny fluid. All looked in pretty good condition,surprisingly. The radiator even still had pressure on it when I removed the cap! That tells me the heads,hoses,heater core and water pump should still be in good shape.I also drained the fuel tank through the fuel sending unit access port under the back seat. Attached a hand syphon pump to the fuel pick up tube,got maybe a quart/quart and a half of fuel out. Added about 3 gals of new fuel. She fired up one time,with the aide of starting fluid,although really running rough,which I expected. I didn't rev the engine at all. I was trying to let her come up to normal operating temp before trying to blow out any carbon build up or any rat's nest in the exhaust system or whatever clogs she may have. But she started stumbling and choking after running a minute to a minute and a half and shut off. Oil pressure was around 80, charge showed around 15 volts, I had just charged ( new battery,Walmart special 650 CCA) overnight it was at 13 volts when I installed it) that seemed a little high to me.

Now she won't start again. Sounds like she still has spark,but she doesn't want to completely get going. The Ignition Control Module has puked out all the tar/oil insulation onto the inner fender well. So I'm thinking that must be shot. I've checked the cap/rotor/plug wires,they'er all good,but of coarse the need to be replaced.
Should I go a head and upgrade to an HEI ignition or make sure she'll run off the stock set up first?

Also, she doesn't have an A.I.R. pump(smog) or CAT. The vacuum lines are in pretty bad shape. I'm not sure if the PO was in the process of getting rid of all the smog controls and didn't finish, I did find a few lines not connected,after the first run, I have plugged them off, as best as I know what should be plugged.
I'm getting an error saying my pics are to large. I'll crop and try and post pics later. I was mainly wanting to get help with getting her running and check tranny function, brakes etc.

[dodgerammit]

No need to spend the $$$ on HEI in my opinion. The duraspark setup is actually pretty nice. Get it running first with a new module. After you get the kinks worked out and decide she is worth keeping, upgrade to a basic MSD box to replace the factory ignition module and do the TFI plug wire, coil, cap, and rotor swap. Best bang for buck as I see it. Vacuum lines should be a top priority. If they are bad, the can cause rough running/no start as well. Use IMGUR to host pics. I get the same error no matter how I resize or crop otherwise.

[dodgerammit]

Here is how I have my vacuum lines ran for simplicity and correct functions. Tip: Eliminate your CTO circuits.

[derf]

No need to spend the $$$ on HEI in my opinion. The duraspark setup is actually pretty nice. Get it running first with a new module. After you get the kinks worked out and decide she is worth keeping, upgrade to a basic MSD box to replace the factory ignition module and do the TFI plug wire, coil, cap, and rotor swap. Best bang for buck as I see it. Vacuum lines should be a top priority. If they are bad, the can cause rough running/no start as well. Use IMGUR to host pics. I get the same error no matter how I resize or crop otherwise.

Yep. TFI is a better bang for the buck, mostly because it's fewer bucks. You get the same bang either way.

My write up with parts and tools you need: http://www.grimmjeeper.com/TruckNorris/tfi.html

Only addition to this write up for you would be a new ignition controller since yours is probably toast. You could easily wire in an MSD box or something like that in its place if you want.

[babywag]

Check for spark, never assume...
Check for fuel @ carb...3 gallons is not much fuel, especially if the system was dry, and possibly the tank pickup sock is gone(common).

The tar may be from a previous module failure.
Get it running before throwing parts @ it, today's aftermarket stuff is junk and a roll of the dice.
You could replace everything and still have a no start situation.

[dodgerammit]

Check for spark, never assume...
Check for fuel @ carb...3 gallons is not much fuel, especially if the system was dry, and possibly the tank pickup sock is gone(common).

The tar may be from a previous module failure.
Get it running before throwing parts @ it, today's aftermarket stuff is junk and a roll of the dice.
You could replace everything and still have a no start situation.

Id start by putting a fuel can under the front. Hook fuel pump to it. disconnect other end of pump and verify pump is working. Sitting that long of a time can cause the diaphram to go bad. Go from there.

[will e]

Check for spark, never assume...
Check for fuel @ carb...3 gallons is not much fuel, especially if the system was dry, and possibly the tank pickup sock is gone(common).

The tar may be from a previous module failure.
Get it running before throwing parts @ it, today's aftermarket stuff is junk and a roll of the dice.
You could replace everything and still have a no start situation.

Id start by putting a fuel can under the front. Hook fuel pump to it. disconnect other end of pump and verify pump is working. Sitting that long of a time can cause the diaphram to go bad. Go from there.

This is what I was thinking. Fuel pump may have blown out. Try spraying a bit of starter fluid and see if it runs for a moment, if it does then you know it is probably a fuel issue. Or put a small amount of gas, just a couple of table spoons, down the carb and try starting. Make sure to put the air cleaner back on so if you get a back fire you don't start a fire.

You are going to want to replace the fuel pump regardless. Maybe look at converting to an electric fuel pump.

[Sir Chomps]

Than you all for the replies and info! @dodgerammit,there's no doubt she's a keeper! The price I was able to snag her up was so reasonable, she's still worth it even if she has to have a new engine,tranny and all else! Also, thank you for the vacuum diagram! She definitely has some lines routed wrong. As i mentioned in my OP, The smog pump is gone but the charcoal canister is still in place.
Y'all please forgive me if my ignorance shows through in some of my questions. This is the first time venturing into the world of AMC/Jeep. LOL! I did some wrenching on my Grandpa's old '79 Chevy PU. it was a sleeper! LOL! Little mild street cam, performa intake,Edelbrock Carb.....yadda....yadda...yadda,but that's been going on 25 yrs ago! LOL!
Not planning to go with anything like that on the waggy, just want to keep her as stock as possible.
Let me look into how to post some pics of her, and I want to read up on the TFI and the link provided by @derf.

Thank you all, very much, again for your time suggestions and interest!!

[Sir Chomps]

******UPDATE******And a few more questions.LOL!
Verified I am getting flow to the carb. Removed battery to charge again, took a look at carb. when there was no chance of any spark LOL! Opened choke plate, operated accelerator pump by hand, she's squirting some good toots down her gullet! Also, ohm checked the coil and pick up going to the ICM, all within specs.
I Bought a new ignition module, removed and inspected spark plugs/wires. Some potential bad spots on wires, but I'll "patch" with some liquid electric tape for right now.LOL! She ran off of them on the first run, so I think they should be good enough for her to run on for right now.
The sun is just coming up, I don't mean to be in a rush but I'm anxious to get out there and get parts back on her and see if she'll run again.
I'm going to see if I can get the "pic posting" to work on here. If anyone can help me identify what model carb she has that would be excellent!!
The pic is the only tag I can find on it. Of course, it has a smudge over it. I didn't want to remove the carb before I could determine if she'll run.


Thanks again for the replies and interest!!
I think I have figured out how to post pics!!

Carb. Pics
,,,
Adding some pics to show her beauty!
,,,

[Sir Chomps]

Another UPDATE********
Installed new ICM. She fires up,still running kind of rough and stalling. When I start her I can hold my foot on the accelerator about 1/4 to maybe 1/2 way down,She tries to get running but cuts off after 30-45 seconds. Is this just the carb still being dried out? I did this maybe two to three times, she's blowing lots of carbon out the tailpipe. I did pull the plugs, before i installed the ICM, they were carbon coated,not crusty with it. None were oil fouled, thank the GOOD LORD! I have pics of the plugs if anyone is interested.
A thunderstorm came up, while I was trying to fire her up with the new ICM, pouring rain,(not sure if I mentioned,I'm literally doing this under the shade tree,no garage, carport,nothing) so I had to quit with her.
I checked all the vacuum lines. All are plugged or connected, Although the distributor is connected to the carb on a port located on the lower right corner of the carb. I know this is not how dodgerammit's diagram showed and I will reconfigure to have it matched to that, I have to get some new vacuum line before I can do that. Will she run with the distributor connected like this? Any ides why she's running and stalling? Should I keep trying until the carb can get a little saturated? Also,I need to determine what carb she has on her so I can order rebuild kit.

Thank you all for your replies and interest!

[derf]

Looks like the stock carburetor. It would be a Motorcraft 2150.

[Sir Chomps]

Thank You DERF!! Yep. She's pretty much stock. I couldn't tell if it is the 2100 or 2150. I bought a "Haynes" manual. It doesn't really say how to tell them apart, unless I'm missing it, which is very possible LOL!

Thank you for the info!

[dodgerammit]

Carb adjustments may be off and causing it to die. Should hold fast idle for a bit to warm up.

Carbon/black thick smoke out of the tailpipe may be running too rich. May just be from sitting.

I know mine will start with one pump of the accelerator and stay on fast idle till I blip the throttle. Still can be touchy at curb idle till the engine is completely warmed up.

Yeah, looks like the 2150.

And as far as the vacuum lines, they are routed that way(wrong) from the factory. EPA and emissions crap that ultimately hurt the driveability. Shouldn't affect the starting and running unless you have a serious vacuum leak.

Try tightening the carb studs/nuts and make sure it is sealed good.

Use a good rubber hose as a stethoscope to listen for vacuum leaks around the major connections.

Carb could need a rebuild if still original.

You got it started though. That is a step in the right direction.

[derf]

Thank You DERF!! Yep. She's pretty much stock. I couldn't tell if it is the 2100 or 2150. I bought a "Haynes" manual. It doesn't really say how to tell them apart, unless I'm missing it, which is very possible LOL!

Thank you for the info!

You have to look at their behinds.

The 2100 doesn't have much sticking out back. The 2150 has a cylinder laid over and facing the back. That's an altitude compensation circuit that leans out the mix as you go up in altitude. When it's in good working order it does a really good job. The 2100 came in the 70s Jeeps, the 2150 showed up somewhere in the very early 80s.

[Sir Chomps]

Thank You all for the info and replies! I'm thinking I'm really getting some where now!
Prior to another thunder storm 5/4/19, I bought/installed a new fuel filter. She started up, (maybe just hopeful) but seemed like she didn't run quite as rough,but she's still stalling or cutting off,what ever the correct term is, just as if I turn the key off. I mean she just goes dead! No dash lights on the stall.
The Haynes manual is leading me to the "Ballast Resistor"(per the trouble shooting symptoms)? I'm not familiar with this at all. Could some one shed some light on this for me,or am I "chasing my Tail" heading this direction? The steering column is busted(I can include pics). I don't think she's stolen.LOL! She has a clean title! I looks as if the ignition key cylinder has been replaced. It doesn't even have the "thumb tabs) as most do. There are chunks of the plastic column busted out at the top by the steering wheel and a chunk missing a little lower.
I did a parts search for "Ballast resistor", older models show an actual "block" with a spade terminal on each end, may be like the "block" has a diode inside(?) From what I understand, the '86 model is just a different gauge wire from the coil to the ignition key(?) I do see a small gauge wire coming off the coil that has been soldered on to a red with white tracer wire going into the wiring harness. I don't have pics,but I can get some if some one would like a visual.
After installing the new fuel filter and starting a few times, I checked for leaks, none at the filter but I could see the carb is leaking from the accelerator pump and under neath from what I think is the power valve(?) It's not enough to make a drip, it's just enough to make the lower screws on the accelerator pump moist as well as the visible surface of the power valve. Could she be sucking air in if the accelerator pump is leaking(?) She has had a few good backfires through the carb that could have blown out the power valve.
Should I stop and do a carb rebuild? I'd really hate to burn her to the ground!LOL! My luck usually weighs on the bad side of things,so I may be a little over cautious! LOL! The only info needed as model number is 2150 to order rebuild kit?
I was also looking to see what would be needed to go with derf's CTO delete, Man! As I look at the vacuum lines current routing,they are a mess!! To say the least! There is a port on the lower right hand side of the carb., it's routed back to where it runs off of manifold vacuum, the hose was soaked with fuel, I'm pretty sure this would not be correct, thats causing fuel to be sucked into the manifold,correct(?) I snipped the end off and made a better connection at the carb and put it back. I've never really dealt with any vacuum system,so I'm hesitant to make changes so as to not make things worse. Dogerammit mentioned (thank you for the comment) the vacuum routing shouldn't affect starting(?)
I have watched a video on youtube by "prancstaman" titled "redoing vacuum lines on Jeep engine" if any one is interested. It's sort of hard to hear unless you crank the volume, also has some "salty" language LOL! if any one is bothered by that,just a warning.
Once again. If I'm headed up the wrong tree with thinking the vacuum lines are the problem please get me on the right coarse!

Thank you all again!

[babywag]

Carb rebuild is easy and cheap, sounds like it is way overdue.

An 86 has what's called a resistance wire, ~4' length of nichrome solid core wire. No ballast resistor present when built.

If it just shuts off sounds like an electrical issue?
I'd look closely at the wiring.
Couple common issues...
Coil horseshoe connector and the distributor pickup wires.
The pickup wires flex and break internally inside insulation from decades of service can be tested with ohm meter.
Also the duraspark distributor plugs are notorious for being poor.
Roundish black dudes that are close to distributor.

oljeep.com has factory service manuals haynes aren't great.
little changes from '79-'86 so '82 manual is good for ignition/electrical/etc.

[Sir Chomps]

Thank you, babywag for the info!

A few questions. The "resistance wire" you speak of should be a 4 "foot" length of wire,correct? I have looked on "Oljeep",I'm not seeing any reference to a resistance wire or ballast resistor, or any reference to an '82 model year. This "resistance" wire should be an individual wire and not spliced into any other wire in the harness? Excuse me if that's an ignorant question.

The pick up wires you refer to are the coil pick up wires? I checked the coil pick up at the connection to the ICM,per instructions from the Haynes manual, and it checked with in the Ohm range of their specification. I am aware the Haynes manual is not the best reference material available, but it is a good "starting point" for me at least. I do plan on getting a better or a factory repair manual in the future, but they can be a little pricey LOL! and with the "Oljeep" resource, it has just about all I need!LOL!
I had become suspicious of the plugs you mentioned leading out of the distributor, they look to be in good condition,but I didn't want to "fiddle" with them too much as to not make anything worse. I will go back and give them a closer inspection/disconnect and check plug connections on the inside.

Thank you for the reply, once again and if you might have any other info to offer please do so! I will update after the next start attempt. I'm thinking I'm going to go ahead and rebuild the carb. It may be a couple of days before I get that done. It's been at least 20 yrs since I did a rebuild. LOL!
In the mean time I'm going to revisit the "Oljeep" site and read some more!

[babywag]

The resistance wire is spliced into an ignition wire on one end.
Other end (splice) goes to #1 terminal of alternator wire.
With key in run position measuring voltage @ coil will tell you if it's there.
It's buried in wiring loom...

Yes on distributxor plugs, they'll probably be loaded inside w/ green goo.
I cut them off and use weatherpack connectors there.
The wiggle test will sometimes reveal distributor pickup wire(s) problem. When running carefully wiggle wires coming out and if it stalls replace pickup.
Can also use ohm meter...if goes infinite while wiggling...
How did you test pickup coil w/o disconnecting wiring plugs?

[Sir Chomps]

babywag, thank you for the response! I apologise for my reference on the "Oljeep"site not showing the '82. I'm reading on there now,I was previously looking in the Electrical section. I have now found the "82 wagoneer TSM page.
I'll check whether the resistance wire is there or not the first chance I get to get back to her, which will probably be tomorrow.
As far as doing the "wiggle test" while she's running, She won't stay running long enough for me to make the check!LOL!

I'll have to go with the ohm meter connected while wiggling the wires.
I did the check of the pick-up coil from the connection at the ICM, When I removed it to replace it with the new one. At the time, I didn't realize their was a connection by the Distributor. I have never worked on an AMC engine, it was always small block chevy,from the 70's. I wouldn't have disconnected it any way before I could see if she would crank any better with the new ICM.
I have seen different images today on the net showing the position of the vacuum advance mechanism on the distributor,located at about the 6 O'clock position. Mine is at 3 O'clock and the vacuum advance hose is almost crimped or kinked up against the bracket for the power steering pump. That can't be right(?) I haven't moved it yet, I'm probably a little to over cautious of moving things as to not make things worse. I can loosen the hold down bolt and turn the Distributor to where the Vacuum advance mechanism is in the 6 O'clock position,right?

Thank you for the reply!

[KJ Ryu]

PO may have pulled the distributor at some point so it may be close to where it should be. I'd grab a timing light, if you're gonna do anything with it. A remote start switch, or a helper, will come in handy.