Water Water Everywhere!

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letank
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby letank » Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:01 pm

Tatsadasayago wrote:Superb photos letank! Probably very few of us have or ever will see inside those areas and definitely not as clearly! :-bd


Thank you, Primed and painted the bottom of the vent.

Tatsadasayago wrote:The red arrow in the shot below shows the triangle area.


That area is usually smeared with body sealant similar to the glob that you found, it is all around the various body panels, and as you found out, it dries and falls apart. I have the same leak on the 74 , and part of my A pillar is gone, the 85 is getting eaten up also on the driver's side.

Tatsadasayago wrote:Looks like I'm going to do some metal work and windshield removal soon.


Waiting to see how you tackle it.
Michel
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letank
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby letank » Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:12 pm

So followed the described above tested fix, used some roofing goop (henry flashing and construction), it is really sticky, even after 24hrs. Will see after the next rain on sunday night.

During the big rain, I had the vents removed but the fresh air intake covered, and attached some plastic bag with foil tape to collect any water, and it was really filling up so fast that I had to put a tarp.

Image

As you can see the sealant was put on the carboard, not the sheet metal / inner fender area,

Image

and the cardboard is not water tight, you can spot the entry way of the water on the kick panel

Image

and the body panel, driver's side

Image


and the passenger's side

Image

The left side more than the right, and curiously the bottom of the right side has a tiny hole in the corner should have yielded more water, but it did not. On the other hand the right side seems to have a secondary leak as seen this morning with a little puddle..... dang, it never stops.

I forgot that you have to remove the parking brake assembly.... well I managed to do it without removing the parking brake cable, but upon reinstallation I forgot about the pathway of the control cable for the vent (mine was busted, so I took the time to install a good one, grabbed at the junkyard trip a few years ago), and guess what, I had to pull the parking brake pedal cable because I did not want to remove the vent smeared with the gooey flashing compound.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (226 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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letank
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Re: Water Water Everywhere! Monday update

Postby letank » Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:36 pm

So we had another few inches of heavy rain sunday night, and success, monday pm, the driver's side is dry and the passenger's side is almost dry, a few drops coming off the antenna grommet.

As soon as the weather warms up, more goop around the grommet.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (226 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby Tatsadasayago » Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:03 am

Getting the same here!
I am leaving the Jeep exposed this round and so far no leaks.
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby Tatsadasayago » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:50 pm

After the big rains stopped I was able to get back to solving the water leaks...

I removed the windshield trim pieces and found quite a mess.


The trim had a bunch of dirt packed in behind it and silicone sealant slathered all over. I scrubbed the rubber gasket with a brush and Dawn detergent then dug out the silicone and old hard factory caulking. The arrow points to the lower A-pillar seam which has a nice hole. The factory caulk was cracked and loose.
Image

The upper part of the pillar shows another hole at the roof seam.
Image

Both of these holes allows water to run down the inside of the pillar. I suspected this was the source of my leaks.
After scrubbing the gasket some more I lightly rinsed the soap sud off then took a quick peek under the dash.
Image

WOW! Serious water intrusion with the caulk and sealer removed!
You can clearly see the water tracks along the dash/cowl edge as well as where the dash meets the A-Pillar/upper kick panel.
I didn't notice the rust staining on that bare metal until I was editing the image. :oops:
I decided to remove the black rubber caulking to see what was behind it.
Image
As I suspected, there was another opening behind that caulk. This one is very near the corner of the windshield and where the a pillar ends as shown below where I poked my pick tool through it.
Image

I went around the windshield gasket and scraped out quite a bit of dirt as seen below.
Image

Because I wasn't able to replace the windshield and gasket, I took the RendNeckJeeper® route and applied clear silicone to the pillars and gasket then surface sealed it to the glass and body.

I removed the seats, carpet, insulation pad and the factory rubber floor mat to allow everything to dry out.
After allowing the silicone to cure overnight I doused the windshield with water and was rewarded with a wet floor... :banghead:

The biggest leaks are landing on the E-Brake and brake pedals with other small ones at the kick panels.

My next step is to see about pulling the dash out, stripping the caulked seams and applying new sealer from the inside. I can't come up with a effective way to get sealant into the cowl so I'll cheat on this one a bit.
When, not IF, I get these leaks fixed I think I'll put together a FSJ Leak Guide thread that shows where the leaks are and how to stop them so others will know what to do.

Jim
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letank
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby letank » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:31 am

Aaaaack, good catch on removing the windshield trim. I believe that most of us are on the same path, but not knowing about the dry seam sealer.

My understanding is that the clear silicone and any silicone is too acid and degrades the paint allowing for rust to take action. So for those pesky leaks a special windshield sealer is the one to use, this is why I used the construction flashing sealer. So far is has been dry, we only have the fog, and it was dry yesterday morning... will see tomorrow monday.

I repaired the lower corner of the windshield, because I had to grind all that rust, basically I had a gapping 11/2"hole x 1/2" that I filled w marine epoxy and sealed with the flashing goop.

The 80's model have more seam sealer than the 70's need to document that. The access plate for the 80's transmission is covered with seam sealer, while the 70's has a little bead of sealant on the flange. It is the same around the underside of the dash panel.

I was trying to find a pict of the dashboard screws pattern.... then forgot to send submit last evening.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (226 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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Stuka
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby Stuka » Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:22 pm

There are paint safe silicone seals. But the majority of them will eat it.
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Tatsadasayago
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby Tatsadasayago » Tue Jan 06, 2015 10:46 am

nimbus removed the cowl on his J20 and was gracious enough to share good photos of the leak areas hidden from view. With his permission, I am adding those photos to the thread to help members with their leak issues.

Image

this is the truck before i removed anything


Image

this is 91 spot welds later when the cowl was removed the blue shows where water would flow and the red in this picture shows the wiper holes for reference

Image

Image

showing the pinch weld that is causing the issues

Image


on the side of the pinch weld the red circles are rust holes that go directly into the cab, you can see how this would allow water in

Image

this is a view down the hole at the end of the "trough" the red circle shows the tiny hole at the bottom that all the water is expected to drain through, on my truck this became clogged with leave, chunks of body filler, and everything imaginable. on day in the rain I could see water pooling all the way up and pouring into the cab through the fresh air vent. this would be a good area to check on occasion it is accessible by removing the fresh air vent from the kick panels and reaching in to remove the crud.


if there is any other things you would like to see feel free to ask, I imagine the cowl will be off for a little while as i work at repairing that pinch weld and the holes.
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby CGB 1973 Wagoneer » Sat Jan 02, 2016 9:45 am

I came across this post yesterday and I it's a good thing that I did. In the past I hadn't thought much about the fresh air vents on my Wagoneer. When I took the vent covers and doors off to check them out it looked just like the pictures that were posted in the thread. After cleaning them out I sprayed a rust inhibitor in there of now, hopefully it will slow down any damage until I can address it properly.

Here are a couple of the pictures that I took (I am not sure if I can get them to post but I will give it a shot).
image.jpg

image.jpg
image.jpg

image.jpg


Thanks!
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letank
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby letank » Sun Jan 03, 2016 7:12 pm

Glad that it was helpful, you got it in time... which rust inhibitor did you use?
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby CGB 1973 Wagoneer » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:07 pm

It was manufactured by Permatex. There are probably better options out there however I happen to have a can of it leftover from another project so I decided it would do (I hope so).

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Nikkormat
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby Nikkormat » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:59 pm

Is it that shellac looking stuff? Or the stuff that looks like nasty purple gell? The shellac looking stuff works really well for areas not exposed to wear. The jelly is only temporary and should be painted over.
Now this ol' Jeep needs a coat a' paint
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby CGB 1973 Wagoneer » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:03 pm

It is the shellac looking stuff. I sprayed it on pretty thick hoping to coat it all as best as possible. Didn't think about painting over that, might have a weekend project ahead??

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Nikkormat
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby Nikkormat » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:32 pm

The stuff you used should be fine without a top coat.
Now this ol' Jeep needs a coat a' paint
But she makes up for what I ain't

letank
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby letank » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:42 pm

The permatex product is not a primer (as per instruction sheet), so primer is recommended if you feel like painting it.
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (226 Kmiles... the running test lab)
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husker77
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby husker77 » Sat Jan 09, 2016 9:57 pm

Tatsadasayago wrote:
Image

this is a view down the hole at the end of the "trough" the red circle shows the tiny hole at the bottom that all the water is expected to drain through, on my truck this became clogged with leave, chunks of body filler, and everything imaginable. on day in the rain I could see water pooling all the way up and pouring into the cab through the fresh air vent. this would be a good area to check on occasion it is accessible by removing the fresh air vent from the kick panels and reaching in to remove the crud.




So if a guy gets in there that far should a person try and open that drain hole up some?

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wewillsurvive
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Water Water Everywhere!

Postby wewillsurvive » Sat Jan 09, 2016 10:27 pm

I attempted to do this today but can't figure out how to remove the door, can someone help me out?


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Last edited by wewillsurvive on Sun Jan 10, 2016 6:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dusty
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby Dusty » Sat Jan 09, 2016 11:30 pm

Front doors?

There are three bolts that hold the hinge to the frame not two. It is very deceiving when you look at it. The third bolt is in the middle of the hinge inside that cavity.


BTW.

Great post you guys! :-bd

I was going to post a bunch of pictures of my own findings, and what I have done to seal up my Waggy, but you all beat me to it. And a mighty fine job you did of providing useful information for the guys who find water on the floor of their FSJ's.
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letank
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby letank » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:56 pm

wewillsurvive wrote:I attempted to do this today but can't figure out how to remove the door, can someone help me out?
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no need to remove the door... just the grille cover for the vent is held by 4 screws the forward facing ones are a bit harder, you need a shorty screwdriver.

the driver side vent cover is a bit harder, you need to loosen the emergency brake handle...
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (226 Kmiles... the running test lab)
See Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work

letank
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Re: Water Water Everywhere!

Postby letank » Sun Jan 10, 2016 12:57 pm

husker77 wrote:
Tatsadasayago wrote:
this is a view down the hole at the end of the "trough" the red circle shows the tiny hole at the bottom that all the water is expected to drain through, on my truck this became clogged with leave, chunks of body filler, and everything imaginable. on day in the rain I could see water pooling all the way up and pouring into the cab through the fresh air vent. this would be a good area to check on occasion it is accessible by removing the fresh air vent from the kick panels and reaching in to remove the crud.




So if a guy gets in there that far should a person try and open that drain hole up some?


The drain hole is large enough, that it is opened... but sure poke a screwdriver.... then pour water...
Michel
74 wag (349 Kmiles... parked, next step is a rust free body)
85 Gwag (226 Kmiles... the running test lab)
See Engine bits and Fuel and brake lines, and Body work


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