1989 Wagoneer Restore- Where To Begin?

[MReno]

Greetings all,

I am so luck to have found this forum. So I have never restored a classic vehicle before, but have done basic to moderate level vehicle repair work on my personal vehicles (2001 F250 7.3 PSD, and others). So I know how to turn generally a wrench or have friends that are very good at turning wrenches..

I recently bought a 1998 Grand Wagoneer (360 V8) that runs, but needs a bunch of interior work as well as what looks like engine work, with the hope of restoring it over the next 5 years or so. The body and frame are in average condition for the age (rusted rocker panels and some areas of rust on the lower rear quarter panels, but otherwise no other rust); the carburetor was replaced, but not sure if the replacement is correct, fuel lines/filter look to not be returned to factory, exhaust system (twin straight pipe) was modified that tends to heat up the rear floor beneath the rear set so I'm not sure if that is correct, body mounts are shot and need replacement, etc.

My question is this- Where should I begin with the restoration? What I would like to avoid is doing some work that will require me to disassemble that to complete other work down the road. Is there a general sequence that is suggested that I follow to restore the vehicle? My first thought is that I will inventory all systems, parts, etc. and categorize then as Working, Somewhat Working, Not Working, Missing. From there I can prioritize an order for addressing each.

Again, this for me is not a sprint, but a marathon, as I plan to retire in 5 years and will have a bunch more time then to tinker, but getting it in working condition by then would be nice.

Thanks.

[mx71]

Start with the motor. That'll affect all other decisions.

[derf]

Yep. I would start with the motor.

Very first thing I would do is start with the oil pressure. The AMC engines are notorious for the oil pump getting worn out over the years. That means low oil pressure, which is "bad". And by "bad" I mean, it's not entirely uncommon for low oil pressure to cause starvation to the rod journals on the rear two pistons (#7/#8). That leads to bearing failure and throwing a rod. And that's a "you need a new engine" conversation. So check the oil pressure and make sure it's still good. If not, you may want to check the bearings for wear. And if you are going to replace the two piece rear main seal (a common leak source), you can check bearings while you have the oil pan off.

One note to a Ford guy. AMC numbers its pistons like a Chevy, which is different than the way Ford numbers them. Driver front is #1, and it goes #3, #5, and #7 down the drivers side. #2, #4, #6, and #8 go front to back on the passenger side.

BJ's Offroad is as good a place as any to find replacement parts. http://www.bjsoffroad.com
Team Grand Wagoneer has parts but their shipping times and customer service aren't the best. http://www.teamgrandwagoneer.com
There may be other places to find parts. There were some other AMC specialty shops but at least one of them has let their AMC parts business suffer substantially in the last several years and I don't even bother with them any more.

BJ's has an oil pump rebuild kit that's pretty easy to install without doing anything more than pulling a couple of bolts. They also offer a "mid plate" that puts a steel liner between the oil pump gears and the bottom of the aluminum housing (one of the places that wears substantially).

Getting a carburetor set up to run right isn't rocket surgery but it does require some effort. Having a vacuum gauge really helps getting it dialed in. As an alternative, Holley now offers the Sniper 2300 throttle body fuel injection system. It bolts right up in place of the factory carburetor so you don't have to do major engine surgery to get it installed. People seem to be having good luck with it.

Beyond that, the transmission (Chrysler TF727 with AMC specific bellhousing) is durable and usually not much of a source of problems besides possible leaks. The transfer case (NP229) is reasonably durable. The vacuum shifter can sometimes need new vacuum lines to get it to work right. And there's always seals that eventually start to leak on a 30 year old vehicle. A common saying about Jeeps: "If there ain't no oil under 'em, there ain't no oil in 'em."

It would be a good idea to check the frame where the fuel tank sits up against it. That's a common place for hard-to-find rust. It's not terribly hard to patch though if you can weld or find someone who can. Body panels can be patched easily enough by a competent body guy and you can find some replacement panels to make that job easier.

You can get new carpet pretty easily. And seats are easy to recover. Some interior pieces can be replaced with new parts. Others will require searching the For Sale section of forums like this and IFSJA. http://www.ifsja.org

Also, the Haynes manual for the Grand Wagoneer is actually useful. You may need to order one online but unlike some of the other Haynes manuals, they did a good job putting this one together. It's no factory service manual but it has almost everything you need for most tasks.

Finally, upgrading the ignition is pretty easy. AMC used Ford parts in its ignition and upgrading to the TFI coil is only a few bucks more than replacing plugs and wires during a tuneup. Here is my write up on how to do it: http://www.grimmjeeper.com/TruckNorris/tfi.html

[MReno]

Derf- So thankful to you for providing this insight....While I will need to Google some of the engine component terms you referenced, this gives me a good place to begin my journey. I do have the Haynes manual, and there is a bit of oil under the engine so its good to know what you shared. I thought about converting to EFI, but that cost is not in the budget at this time, so getting the current carb operating properly is my 2sn goal along with making sure the fuel delivery system is returned back to stock after confirming proper oil pressure. I don't want to ruin the engine....

Keep the suggestions coming, I appreciate them.

[letank]

welcome to the asylum,
Check all fluids level and proper colors, bright green for the coolant, as light as possible for the engine oil, bright red and at level for the transmission, and the transfer case, and not forgetting the differentials, you need to remove that cover to drain anything that might be living at the bottom*. And any source of fluid leaks to be addressed.
The other part is emission control if you are in an emission testing zone... you may need to make sure that the current system will pass testing if any.

* on my current project the bottom cover of the differential had rust marks, signs of water sitting for a while... so was the transmission pan...

[MReno]

Letank,
Thanks for the additional input. I will certainly replace all of the fluids and filters first thing, as I like to know they are correct going forward. Keep the input coming....
With regards to emissions, since I am in MD and the vehicle is considered historic, I am exempt from emissions inspection.

[will e]

Welcome to the forum! The first place to start is to know what your ending goal is. You mention "hope of restoring it". This means a lot of different things to different people. Is your goal to make it as original as possible? Do you plan on driving it once it is restored or 'showing' it? Do you want everything to look original or can you compromise on the engine by removing some of the smog equipment and maybe adding some aftermarket items that might make it drive better? Are you hoping to sell it and make a profit (you won't) .

If you are planning on fixing the rust/body and giving it a paint job how do you plan on doing this? Do you have friends who do body work? If your thought is to drop it off at a shop and have them fix the body and paint then I suggest taking it around for estimates before you spend too much money elsewhere. You may be surprised at the cost of getting this done. You will also end up leaving it at the shop for several months.


Once you understand and accept the paint cost then get some of the engine and other work done first so there is less chance that you bang up the body by accident. While you have the engine out you can clean and paint the engine compartment with less fear of overspray.

Do you plan on pulling the body off the frame and painting the frame and such?

[letank]

When you say engine work, do you have any observations to communicate? abnormal noises can be as simple as low oil level, exhaust manifold leaks and because of the vacuum control system, a missing or disconnected hose will make the engine runs rough or poorly. Electrical are of concern as well, recheck all ground cables such as battery to engine and engine passenger side engine mount to frame, behind the oil filter - it could be on the other side-
the integrity of the ignition system is also a neglected factor

[tgreese]

Make it run reliably, steer and stop. New fluids, belts, and hoses first, then assess what it needs mechanically.

Body work, rust repair and paint can be very expensive if you have to pay someone to do it. To replace the rockers yourself, you will need to be able to weld without setting your garage on fire, and then paint the new steel. Both these tasks require a considerable investment in special tools, and you will need to learn to use them. You'll also need a place to work and leave your project while the work progresses.

[Xplitive]

Get rid of it now.

.....
Ha! Welcome

[MReno]

My goal is not to restore it to a "show" car, rather make it reliable for occasional use and a cool 4x4 to muck around in. I have two enclosed workshops in which to work, and I have some welding skills, so replacing the rockers with the new ones that came with the Jeep could be an option, or I might just weld in 2x6 or 2x8 steel tube to provide protection for the doors, etc. when mucking around. Not rock climbing....

[candymancan]

The floor getting hot with the exhaust... check to see if the steel heat sheild above the muffler is still there.. there should be a thick metal plate with legs welded under the floorboard like 2 inches below it and above the muffler and cat and there should also be heat sheilds near the Y pipes by the wheel wells.. all these spaced armor plates stop heat from warming the floor up and causing a fire by igniting the carpet potentially.

[MReno]

Candyman,

Thank you for providing this information. I suspect that when the last owner modified the exhaust to twin straight pipe, that possibly some of those heat shields may have been removed to gain clearance. That will certainly be a priority as well to prevent a fire. I hope my Haynes manual shows a schematic, but if not, welding in some heat shields at these location should not be to difficult to correct the issue.

Keep the input coming...

[will e]

Great, if it's for mucking around then you can get the mechanicals worked out first and worry about the body/paint later.

Like they said, get it running and stopping. Then assess the rest.

[candymancan]

Candyman,

Thank you for providing this information. I suspect that when the last owner modified the exhaust to twin straight pipe, that possibly some of those heat shields may have been removed to gain clearance. That will certainly be a priority as well to prevent a fire. I hope my Haynes manual shows a schematic, but if not, welding in some heat shields at these location should not be to difficult to correct the issue.

Keep the input coming...

Just make sure they are spaced if you do. Couple inches from the floor itself hopefully there is room with the exhaust he put on.

[candymancan]

Candyman,

Thank you for providing this information. I suspect that when the last owner modified the exhaust to twin straight pipe, that possibly some of those heat shields may have been removed to gain clearance. That will certainly be a priority as well to prevent a fire. I hope my Haynes manual shows a schematic, but if not, welding in some heat shields at these location should not be to difficult to correct the issue.

Keep the input coming...

Oh and buy a firr extinguisher for that Jeep and keep it in there. Ive seen 3 in salvage ysrds thst csught on fire from inside the dash. There are wiring issues with these grand wagoneers. Check the choke wire and the wiring near the carb there is a plunger like thing thst pushes thr throttle lever outslightly.. check that wire.. Its an orange wire i believe ? I forgot and it plumbs into two other orange wires on the drivers side one is for the oil pressure sending unit and i forgot the other .BUT those 3 wires which go into one arent fused. So if they short out it causes a carbeque. My choke wire was hanging off touching the intake manifold and that nipple thing on tje throttle lever the wire was shunken and exposed like 3 inches down.. and its litterally like 1 inch away from the fuel line. I replaced that wire and added a inline fuse after the 2-3 orange wires merge into one.

They merge in the wire bundle by the passenger exhaust manifold. Also make sure those wires are far away from the manifold.. they are very close.. i suggest zip tying the bundle away as far as you can.

Also check your wiring for the fog lights. They run along the harness on the drivers wheel well by the wiper fluid reservoirs.. Take thr bundke out if the loom thingy and check them. My fog lights the main power wire a big fat red one whi h goes into a relay on the wheel well was shorting out and was so bubbled there was like no insulation left and it melted to like 5 other wires. The fog lights aparently arent fused either lol. Alot of stuff uses fusible links on these Jeeps which i hate. The blower motor under the passenger footwell inside the Jeep ive heard is a fused link with something else and csn short out and cause fires ive seen pics of thr melted wiring.

Lol so id keep a extinguisher handy in case something ever hsppens in the future.. you never know. Not trying to scare you but its just a thing to keep an eye on.

Id also replace the grounds on the battery and the ground on the engine block to engine mount passenger side.. and id also run a thinner ground wire like a 10ga wire at least from the battery through the radiator to the drivers wheel well. Thats what i did.. doesnt hurt to have more ground wires. Check the ground under the rear bumper.frame drivers side there is one hidden there as well.

[MReno]

Good tips on fire prevention. I have allot to work on, plenty of time to do it.

[MReno]

Looking for everyone's opinion on suspension lift vs. body lift. The Wagoneer has 31X10.5 tires on it and they are in good shape. However they seem to rub somewhere when making a tight turn. I noticed this when loading the vehicle on my auto hauler. I know the body bushings are shot and need replacement so that will raise the body a bit from the frame, but what is the easiest way to gain clearance for the 31's?

I'm not trying to turn it into a mudder truck, but just a bit higher sitting profile would be nice to provide the clearance and make the tires look more proportional, but not interested in having to modify a bunch of other things to accommodate this...Any suggestions on suspension lift vs. leaf spring lift vs. additional body busing lifts?

Thanks.

[Pablo von Paco]

Posting to refer back to