Returning Lifted Wagoneer to Stock Height

[Theodore]

Am looking for advice/opinions on mechanic opinions i got today on ways to return our ‘90 Wagoneer to stock height. This is to be my wife’s daily driver, and will likely see no off-road at all.

From what i can tell, it has new 3” lift via springs, from Rough Country, part# 8004. Shocks are new Rough Country N2.0.

Option 1: Replace the existing shocks & springs with new stock height shocks & springs. Est. cost is ~$1000-1200 installed.

Option 2: Remove the shackles on the front - see pic & de-arch the rear springs. Mechanic thinks we can use existing shocks. Est. Cost is ~$250.

While i’d prefer not to spend $1000+, i wonder whether option 2 is feasible, and find it hard to believe we’d be able to keep existing shocks, without them bottoming out.

Here’s a current pic of the Wagoneer.


Here’s a pic of the shackle on the front.





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[Stuka]

Those front shackles are stock, not lift shackles. If your "mechanic" was suggesting to remove the shackles entirely, you need a new mechanic. A shackle is an absolute requirement for leaf springs. They cannot be removed entirely.

Rough country springs are known for having one of the worst rides of any lift springs for FSJs. Is this the reason you ware wanting to go back to stock? Also, the rear is most likely lift blocks, as thats what the rough country lift uses. 3" front spring, 3" rear block. Removing the rear block will lower the back down. You can buy new stock height front springs from a few companies.

As for those shocks, they will most likely bottom out if you remove the shift. You can try them out, but be aware it may happen. If it does, it typically destroys the valving inside the shock.

[candymancan]

Like stuka said those are the stock shackles... XJ cherokees use the same shackles believe it or not as the wagoneers.

And 1000$ to install new springs with the cost of the springs... What springs are you getting... Because it costed me 1000$ with all new 4 leafs and 4 shocks and a new shackles for the rear.. this includes the U and I bolts. Because you cant reuse U bolts

So your mechanic must be looking at 5 pack chinese springs.

The front OEM springs are "97-400" 7 pack 1350 lbs ?
springs and the rears are 4/1 pack "97-485" 1150 lbs those are the part numbers.

Look online how much they are. About 185$ a peice.. Shocks are about 160$ then you need I bolts. and U bolts.. So like i said 1000$... This doesnt count labor.. So yea im 100% confident your mecyanic is looking at crappy chinese springs that will sag in a year.

those shocks will bottom out when you drop the jeep.. measure 2 1.2 3 inches lower on that piston.. then measure flexing.. Itll probly bottom out.

Also those tires what size are they... That Jeep looks like my 90 with new OEM springs and normal 29-30 inch AT tires.. So if you lower the Jeep 3 inchs.. those tires will probly rub.

Not trying to sound like a drag but 1000$ installed i just dont believe it.. ask him what springs... Tell him the part numbers i listed.. You do not want chinese 5 pack front springs on your Jeep trust me..

And if he cant tell those are stock shackles... id go to a different mechanic.

[44bz]

I think it looks perfect as is. Save your cash and drive it!


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[candymancan]

Yea i was gonna say that as well it looks like a great height.

Why do you want to lower it ? Is it too high for her to jump in or is the ride too rough ?

[rocklaurence]

Hey guys, not certain but those dont look like Rough Country springs. RC has square cut non-tapered leaves.

[will e]

Looking at the side pic I agree the rear does not have lift springs. You don't see any arch to the rear springs. Attach a picture of the rear suspension when you get a chance.

Front stock height springs are available, that's the way to go. As mentioned, tire rub might be a problem.

[letank]

Could be 2" lift, here is the 74 w 2"



and the 85 with stock springs, a bit sagging in the rear

[Theodore]

Thanks for replies! This is exactly what i was after. Have read thru & summarized the questions w/answers.

Re: removing shackles on the front - yes, that was what mechanic #2 offered & de-arching the backs. Made me feel like it was being rigged, so i sought the advice of the FSJ community.

From Stuka:
Q1: Why do we want to return to stock height? Is it the height or the ride?
A1: Both, my wife is short of stature and has trouble getting in & out, and the ride is terrible. We have no intention of going off-road.
Q2: Are there lift blocks in the back? It doesnt look like it to me - have included a pic below - though there is some kind of aluminum wedge below the leaf pack.

Here’s pics of the rear suspension:





From Candymancan:
Q1: what stock springs / shocks are you looking at?
A1: at the time, i was assuming keeping existing shocks; looked at BJ’s offroad, part number - BJSTOCK; plus two sets of spring bolts, and poly bushings, totalling $~500, plus $500 for installation. assuming Bilstein shocks, adds about $250 for a total of $1250 plus shipping.

With that said, where are the OEM springs coming from that you speak of? And, what shocks would you recommend for road use? Are BJ’s springs Chinese made?

From Rocklaurence:
Q1: are you sure they’re Rough Country springs?
A1: yes, stickers on the fronts indicate they are, see pic from the fronts. I cant find any indication of brand on the rears.



From will_e:
Q1: can you provide a pic of rear suspension?
A1: see pics above.



So, it seems mechanic #2’s opinion is out; and we’ll go with OEM springs & replacement stock height shocks. Question now is: from where?

Given the Wag Sag conversations that are prevalent on the site - is it safe to assume that pulling springs from an existing vehicle should be out?






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[rapom]

BJ's or Z&M Jeeps are two sources.

[ShagWagon]

Just install grab handles for $49 and be done with it. http://fsjnetwork.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=5620

Even thought it isnt going to be off road, it's nice to know you have it if you need it. Seems like a waste of money if it isn't broken or need repair.

[candymancan]

You can get Oem springs made in the united states in PA at places like trucksprings.com or SD trucksprings.com or generalspring.com .

. These are the front springs youll want. This is 100% OEM 7 pack front springs.. 7 springs at 1335 lbs will give a much softer ride then your lifted 4-5 pack springs.

https://www.generalspringkc.com/product_p/97-400.htm

https://www.truckspring.com/Search.aspx?keyword=97-400

I personally got the 97-402 rated at 1455lbs.

https://www.generalspringkc.com/product_p/97-402.htm

The rears are these.

https://www.truckspring.com/products/tr ... 7-485.aspx

[Stuka]

Ah, thanks for the update. Ok...

Like mentioned above, there are a few places with stock height springs. However, I am not sure if any of them use the 7 leaf pack that came on Grand Wagoneers. The fewer the leaves, the stiffer the ride. 7 thin leaves ride a lot smoother than 4 thick ones.

Another reason your lift may be stiff is the trac-bars. These really are not intended for a lift and can cause the Jeep to ride a lot stiffer. They offer better handling when you have stock suspension. But with a lift, it puts them at an angle instead of flat, so it results in them binding. So it may be worth pulling those off and see how it rides.

[candymancan]

Ah, thanks for the update. Ok...

Like mentioned above, there are a few places with stock height springs. However, I am not sure if any of them use the 7 leaf pack that came on Grand Wagoneers. The fewer the leaves, the stiffer the ride. 7 thin leaves ride a lot smoother than 4 thick ones.

Another reason your lift may be stiff is the trac-bars. These really are not intended for a lift and can cause the Jeep to ride a lot stiffer. They offer better handling when you have stock suspension. But with a lift, it puts them at an angle instead of flat, so it results in them binding. So it may be worth pulling those off and see how it rides.

All the places i linked have 7 pack fronts. and 4/1 rears. 97-400 and 97-402 are 7 pack leafs

[tgreese]

I would note - if you return the fronts to original height using these 7-leaf OEM-style springs, you will likely want a block (or new springs) in the back. The original rear springs of Wagoneers seem to uniformly fatigue, causing what's called "Wag sag." According to above posts, the Rough Country kit comes with blocks for the rear, and retains the original saggy rear springs. Shorter blocks are available from the aftermarket.

Regarding shocks, you can either return to the factory length with factory-style springs, or measure the shocks you have to see if they will work. Take the shock off and measure the distance from pin to pin, and subtract the distance between the axle and (squished) frame bumper from that. This should be more than the collapsed length of your shock absorber.

[candymancan]

I would note - if you return the fronts to original height using these 7-leaf OEM-style springs, you will likely want a block (or new springs) in the back. The original rear springs of Wagoneers seem to uniformly fatigue, causing what's called "Wag sag." According to above posts, the Rough Country kit comes with blocks for the rear, and retains the original saggy rear springs. Shorter blocks are available from the aftermarket.

Regarding shocks, you can either return to the factory length with factory-style springs, or measure the shocks you have to see if they will work. Take the shock off and measure the distance from pin to pin, and subtract the distance between the axle and (squished) frame bumper from that. This should be more than the collapsed length of your shock absorber.

Rear springs dont sag.. Its the quarter panels i have brand new rears and brand new fronts and i
gained maybe .5 inchs in height in the rear switching to new springs ( which eventually settled) my rear still looks lower then the front. But they arent. The front i gained 3 inches of initial ride height as my front springs were inverted upside down from sagging

Like all cars from the 60s and 70s the quarter panel wheel wells are lower then the fender wheel wells. Do the measurements and you see. The rear wheel well is 2 inches lower then the front wheel well. Measure from the top of the wood outline to the wheel well arch... And youll see the rear is 2 inches lower.

It makes the rear look like its sagging. I wish people would stop saying this.. Its an optical illusion.

Measure from the ground to the wood outline on top and i bet the front and rear will be identical in height.. But if you look at it.. it looks lower until you realize the quarter panel wheel well is whats lower

[Theodore]

Thanks, all - will take a look at the links when i get back to the house - thanks for the advice.

[candymancan]

Here is what im talkimg about. Note the rear wheel well is 3 inches lower then the front wheel well... Which means the rear sag is an illusion.. So everyone who has ever blocled or lifted their rear thinking its sagging were wrong.. and instead raised the rear higher then the front so now the front is sagging on there Jeeps.. even though it (looks) even

[Stuka]

The rear do sag over time. Yes the rear fender openings are smaller, which can give the illusion of sag. But there is real sag as well. My old cherokee when I got it had 2" blocks in back, and it sat level based off the body lines. 4 Runners are also known for it.

[candymancan]

I dont doubt it.. explorers and cherokees xj with leaf springs can sag too.. specially explorers.. But im just saying i bet most of them is from the illusion of the wheel wells.

I remember watching a video of some 85 ? wagoneer on motor trend on youtube.. and ppl were like man those POS even sagged new.... I just facepalmed.