Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

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JeepManiac
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Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by JeepManiac »

I know on every forum that exists there are a lot of threads about tires.

I need new tires for my 87 J20. I live in Kodiak, AK. Winter is coming, but I don't plan to and can't really afford to buy winter tires and summer tires (although that is ideal).

The truck has about a 4" lift and has 33x12.50's on it. I plan to step down to 265/75R16's

My choices are between KO2's, Michelin defender LTX ms or duratracs. They all seem pretty popular. Which tire do you guys think is the best in winter conditions?

My choices are based a little on experience, sizes available and price.
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REDONE
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by REDONE »

Of those three, Duratracs, handsdown. It kinda stinks because the most affordable (KO2s) are also the worst in sub-freezing winter conditions, and I also have beef with BFGs quality control (never seen a new set of 4 that didn't have at least one blister). I really like the LTX. It doesn't "look" aggressive so people think it isn't aggressive, but they are some of the stickiest winter tires I've ever run that weren't actually sold as "snow tires". Where they fall short is right below freezing, because that's where the grooves just get packed with slush that instantly turns to ice and won't self clean.

I remember when Duratrac's first came out and the company I worked for switched our truck fleet over to them from the Toyo M55. At that time they were dirt cheap, but they also wore much faster than the commercial grade M55. Now that Goodyear has established the tire's reputation, they've jacked up the price to match it. Even so, that far north, I can't imagine there's a better tire for the climate.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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Cecil14
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by Cecil14 »

I've run the BFG ATs for a LONG time (original tread, not the KO2) and have never had a "wish they were different tires" moment. I've never not been able to go anywhere on a public road, plowed or otherwise.

Do you need a certain load rating?

I've had Michelin Defenders (summerish tires) on my Jetta for about a decade, not sure I'll ever switch to anything else for a nice summer tire. I can't really speak to their all season type treads, though.


aa
1983 J-10 - 4.6L(MPFI)/CS130D/Hydroboost/NV3550/D300/44/44/3.54/Disc-Disc/32s/42 gallon 'burb tank

Topic author
JeepManiac
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by JeepManiac »

REDONE wrote:Of those three, Duratracs, handsdown. It kinda stinks because the most affordable (KO2s) are also the worst in sub-freezing winter conditions, and I also have beef with BFGs quality control (never seen a new set of 4 that didn't have at least one blister). I really like the LTX. It doesn't "look" aggressive so people think it isn't aggressive, but they are some of the stickiest winter tires I've ever run that weren't actually sold as "snow tires". Where they fall short is right below freezing, because that's where the grooves just get packed with slush that instantly turns to ice and won't self clean.

I remember when Duratrac's first came out and the company I worked for switched our truck fleet over to them from the Toyo M55. At that time they were dirt cheap, but they also wore much faster than the commercial grade M55. Now that Goodyear has established the tire's reputation, they've jacked up the price to match it. Even so, that far north, I can't imagine there's a better tire for the climate.
Thanks for a thoughtful reply. So I have actually had the duratracs on the wife's 2006 Tahoe and remember being surprised how they did in the winter. Kodiak is in the north pacific and winter can hover around freezing. It actually rains a lot and freezes overnight. Coldest I've ever seen here was 5°F and as warm as 40°+ in the middle of winter.

I have also had the defender LTX on an 04 Silverado 2500hd crew cab. Problem is, I don't own vehicles very long, I have a weird obsession I'm trying to fix. So although I have experience with 2 of the tires I listed, they were on different vehicles and it's been a little while.

I have people tell me how amazing the KO2's are, but I always feel like some of it is "I spent a lot of money on tires and don't want to feel like I wasted my money" because some people speak too highly in my opinion. There's just no comparison to a dedicated winter tire, but some brand loyalists will make the KO2 sound like a studded winter tire.

Other issue is the other vehicles I had these tires on had ABS and traction control which I feel skews the experience I have with them.

The load rating is not too much of a concern. Typically the load range of any of these tires will be plenty for me. I'll tow around 5000 lbs with this thing in the future.
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toothofwar
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by toothofwar »

Our company uses Toyo open country at2s on our trucks. I personally haven't ran them in the snow, but last year I had the Michelin atx(?) On my 3500hd dually. Those things went everywhere. Good clean out, no road noise, and I got 60k miles out of them. But they are not cheap. They are around 70 bucks a tire more than the toyos.

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toothofwar
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by toothofwar »

Also, on my 79 rig, I have the km2s. I love them. But I don't know how about tread wear or life, I only have about 10k miles on them.

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mx71
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by mx71 »

People really love the duratracs these days on a variety of vehicles. I can't speak to the cold weather durability of the BFGs, but they're a great tire. LTX ms are terrible. Nothing but complaints for winter use and longevity. I would also consider Nokian Rotiva A/T 2, or Goodyear Assurance weatherready. I have the Nokian on my grand cherokee and use them for both winter and summer. They're considered "All Weather", not all terrain, and they have the snowflake symbol with an all terrain tread. The goodyear assurance are essentially all seasons but also have the snowflake symbol.
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REDONE
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by REDONE »

I know that far from the mainland availability is going to be a bigger factor than it is down here in Denver, so if you have to open the options a bit, here's some things to know:

M+S on a tire only means that the contact patch is at least 25% void (grooves) vs. contact (blocks). There's no actual testing in mud or snow to get the M+S rating.

The mountain snowflake test is being reviewed right now, so many tires that used to have the symbol have removed it (Like Destination ATs), and some that still bare it may lose it in the near future. The mountain snowflake symbol does require certified independent testing, and it USED to mean that the tire showed better than 10% more traction on snow than a reference tire, but I haven't been able to find what tire that reference tire is.

The expected new requirements are that the test show greater than 20% more traction than a reference tire on ice, instead of snow. This means many of the light truck "all weather" (not all season) tires that have it now may loose it, including the Duratrac, Silent Armor, Dynapro, Destination, etc etc.

The expected result of the change is that only dedicated winter tires will have the mountain snowflake symbol. At first I figured tire manufacturers would fight this, since it removes a selling point from a huge number of specific products, but then I realized they're probably on board because a huge number of drivers will then have to own two sets of tires. Especially in places like CO, where they can be required by law, and get you a $650 fine if you don't have them.
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.

superdave
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by superdave »

My dad lives in Canada and put Duratracs on his WJ. He loves them in snow and on the highway.
Dave Knoerzer
1977 Wagoneer 360/400/QT stock as far as I can tell

Topic author
JeepManiac
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by JeepManiac »

mx71 wrote:People really love the duratracs these days on a variety of vehicles. I can't speak to the cold weather durability of the BFGs, but they're a great tire. LTX ms are terrible. Nothing but complaints for winter use and longevity. I would also consider Nokian Rotiva A/T 2, or Goodyear Assurance weatherready. I have the Nokian on my grand cherokee and use them for both winter and summer. They're considered "All Weather", not all terrain, and they have the snowflake symbol with an all terrain tread. The goodyear assurance are essentially all seasons but also have the snowflake symbol.
Okay well now I'm interested in these Nokian Rotiiva AT. Think they'd beat the other choices in the winter?

And what's the difference between the AT and AT plus?
EDIT: Found some info on a youtube video. Harder compound and deeper tread, AT plus replaces the AT
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1971J4000
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by 1971J4000 »

Okay well now I'm interested in these Nokian Rotiiva AT. Think they'd beat the other choices in the winter?

Not sure about the difference.

I have run Nokian Rotiva AT 235 65 16s on my jacked up Jeep Liberty for past 2 New York State winters.

In 35 years of driving in Winters where we have lots of slushy and icy & hard packed roads... I have never had a better all weather tire.

Amazing in the winter and summer and holds its own off road (except for the real serious mudding).

And also importantly... they are quiet as a whisper at highway speeds.
1971 J4600 with Dauntless 350

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JeepManiac
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by JeepManiac »

1971J4000 wrote:Okay well now I'm interested in these Nokian Rotiiva AT. Think they'd beat the other choices in the winter?

Not sure about the difference.

I have run Nokian Rotiva AT 235 65 16s on my jacked up Jeep Liberty for past 2 New York State winters.

In 35 years of driving in Winters where we have lots of slushy and icy & hard packed roads... I have never had a better all weather tire.

Amazing in the winter and summer and holds its own off road (except for the real serious mudding).

And also importantly... they are quiet as a whisper at highway speeds.
Awesome, I'm sold. They're the cheapest option as well.
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REDONE
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by REDONE »

I've never run them, but they are a Finnish company so I'd expect they know their way around a snow tire, haha! They also just opened a factory in Dayton, OH. 'Muricuh. :-bd
79 J-10 (Honcho Mucho) KE0LSU
304/Performance Fuel Injection TBI/MTA1/SP2P/Magnum rockers
T18/D20/D44s&4.10s/33" Mud Claws
Grizzly Locker Rear
4" front spring drop, 5" rear shackle flip
Chevy style HEI (ECM controlled)
Dolphin "Shark" gauges in a fancy homemade oak bezel
3/4 resto, rotting faster than I've been fixing it.
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1971J4000
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by 1971J4000 »

JeepManiac wrote:Awesome, I'm sold. They're the cheapest option as well.
Looks like the folks at Nokian are having some winter fun.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW5GMsT32RM
1971 J4600 with Dauntless 350

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JeepManiac
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by JeepManiac »

1971J4000 wrote:
JeepManiac wrote:Awesome, I'm sold. They're the cheapest option as well.
Looks like the folks at Nokian are having some winter fun.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW5GMsT32RM
Holy Jesus!
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Kaiserman
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by Kaiserman »

Nokian tires have a very good rep. I had a customer that ran Nokian AT's ( I think they where Vativa's) LT245/75R16's on his K2500 and they wore like iron. He plowed commercially and never had any complaints about them.

Michelin's all seem to be made of a harder compound. Most of our customers with them have to replace them do to dry rot before the tread wears out. I know the LTX's I had on my 71 had poor wet surface traction.
1971 J2500 Gladiator Custom-Cab Platform Stake on 126" wb. B350/T18A/D20 D60/D60-3 w/locker 4.10's Ramsey 8klb PTO winch, Day-brook dump. 225/95R16's
1969 J3800 Gladiator 3407Z Camper Truck. B350/T18A/D20 D44/D60-3 w/4.10's
1968 Wagoneer Custom 327/TH400 Mostly Stock
1987 Cherokee Laredo 2-Door 4.0L/AW4 4" lift OEM swing out tire carrier and brushguard

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JeepManiac
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by JeepManiac »

Well I ordered the 265/75R16 Nokian Rotiiva AT plus through Amazon. The AT plus is the replacement for the AT. The tread is a little harder and deeper, makes me wonder if it sacrifices a little winter traction being a harder compound.

There was one of the original AT's available, and usually you hit order and all of a sudden it automatically has more in stock. I don't know what that's about, but I've seen it with several products on Amazon, especially tires. But considering the AT plus replaces the AT I figured there might legitimately only be one left.

Winter will be hitting Kodiak soon, I'll let you know how the tires do.

candymancan
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by candymancan »

Have you looked at Mastercraft or Cooper both same company.. I have ATs from both on all 3 of Jeeps.. and my moms 4.0 and my 5.9 drove in 2 1.2 feet of snow stock height 2 winters ago and never once got stuck. I even broke the shift linkage off my moms 4.0 and i didnt even needs reverse as i never got stuck... the snow was up to my doors and i was dragging the bottom of the Jeep in the snow.. Ill be rebuying these tires when they wear out. The Mastercraft have about 35k miles on them on the 4.0 and are only half worn..

Soo yea
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)

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JeepManiac
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by JeepManiac »

I have not really looked into those tires, but did just buy some Cooper winter snow/ice studdable tires for my Wife's 97 XJ. They were under $100 per tire. The problem here is not snow like you described, in 4wd I've never had a problem with that. We don't get a lot of snow here, but it get's very icy.

candymancan
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Re: Don't be annoyed, Tire choice for my J20

Post by candymancan »

For ice youd probly want an all season tire.. I dont think an all terrain tire would be the best... but then tbh neither would work that great lol ice sucks
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.9L Limited 219k
1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4.0 I6 laredo 430k
1990 Jeep Grand Wagoneer 155k
1976 Jeep J10.. 85k(repaired)
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