Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

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Santeh
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Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by Santeh »

Hello All,

I am generally familiar with the physical differences, including axle width, between a narrow and wide-track FSJ. I do prefer the look of the Cherokee Chief to the S, but in the end I could not find a Chief so I went with a solid body 1978 Cherokee S. I am still curious, though, if there really is anything that a Chief with the wider axles can do that someone with a FSJ Cherokee S really should not?

Thank you for the thoughts!
1978 Jeep Cherokee S; 5.9L/360 V8 automatic/FiTech fuel injection and Davis Unified Distributor systems.

will e
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by will e »

The biggest difference is how much lift you need to go to each next tire size. And the narrow track Cherokee will fit through tight spaces better...
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge
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tgreese
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by tgreese »

A wide track can't be a 4-door easily.

I suspect it was originally done to make the Cherokee different from the Wagoneer; sportier, with wide tires. The Wagoneer subsequently went upscale and the 4-door narrow track Cherokee took its place when more austerely equipped.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
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will e
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by will e »

BTW, I might be wrong on this but I don't this 'S' is limited to narrow track. Someone will correct me if I am wrong...
81 Waggy 'WILL E' Retired
82 Cherokee WT - SOA/SF/high steer/Alcan springs/agr box/Borgeson steering shaft/AMC 401/performer/holley TA/HEI/BeCool/727/ALTAS (2.0/2.72/5.44)/D60 Snofighter(Yukon Zip,hubs,stubs,4.56)/14 Bolt (FF,BF shave, Discs, ARB,Artec Truss)/MTR 37X12.5/Corbeau XRS Baja & 5 point retractable harness/Hella Aux lights/tuffy console/killer32 sliders/Evil Twin bumpers, rack and roll cage/WARN 8000/TT Fabworks steering brace/dual batts/custom TC skid plate/ARB fridge

Topic author
Santeh
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by Santeh »

will e wrote:The biggest difference is how much lift you need to go to each next tire size. And the narrow track Cherokee will fit through tight spaces better...
I do admit that I like the look of the narrow track more if it is lifted, of which my two-door narrow-track SJ Cherokee came with a 2-inch lift which was great. I do also like that the narrow-track can also fit into tight spaces which is helpful as some of the town roads here are tight, especially when at the beach, and the trails at Jeeptoberfest can be a little narrow (https://www.ocalajeepclub.com/jeeptoberfest/ ; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYPU1vvg9dE).They do have beginner, intermediate, and extreme courses at Jeeptoberfest, of which I would only think of running the beginner course when my SJ Cherokee is ready.

So there really is nothing that the narrow-track cannot do that a wide-track Chief can? How about hills in places like Colorado and Arizona?

Thanks again everyone!
1978 Jeep Cherokee S; 5.9L/360 V8 automatic/FiTech fuel injection and Davis Unified Distributor systems.

candymancan
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by candymancan »

The widetrack imo is only usefull for offroading.. wider axles = less chance to flip over sideways i would imagine.

One reason i dont like wranglers is there axles are narrow as sin.. and the wheelbase is too short.. They are deathtraps if you ask me.

Ive seen a widetrack cherokee laredo an 81 in person at the jnkyard.. I like the way the widetrack looks compared to my wagoneer. It looks meaner and just more aggressive to me.
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by SJTD »

One reason I don't like Wranglers is their axles are too wide. Even my '85 CJ is wide compared to the earlier ones.
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Santeh
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by Santeh »

Nice. Thank you, everyone! It is great to know that, for the most part, the narrow-track SJ Cherokee can hold its own against the wide-track.

As for the Wranglers, they seem to be VERY popular in Florida which makes the rare Wagoneer and Cherokee stand out. I do not mind the look of the newer Wranglers, but as I am an ol' fogie (in the old-fashion sense) I prefer the CJ5-7s. But, then again, I also prefer the 1980-1991 Grand Wagoneers to the CJs (not that I would mind having either). Sigh. It is too bad my SJ Cherokee has sucked away all of this teacher's money. :)
1978 Jeep Cherokee S; 5.9L/360 V8 automatic/FiTech fuel injection and Davis Unified Distributor systems.
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tgreese
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by tgreese »

Santeh wrote:
will e wrote:... So there really is nothing that the narrow-track cannot do that a wide-track Chief can? How about hills in places like Colorado and Arizona? ...
Allow me to speechify a bit here ...

Modern tires have improved a lot since the day, and the trend is to go much, much larger today than you really could then. I equipped my '73 CJ-5 in 1973 with 10.00-15 tires, which was the same size that came with the WT/Chief vehicles. This was considered a large tire then, even for a CJ.

Modern thinking is that, not considering other factors, bigger tires are more capable on the trail than smaller. I don't think we can seriously dispute this - better traction, more floatation, better conformation to uneven surfaces, lower rolling resistance - aside from improvements like improved tire design, tread pattern or materials. You have to lift a NT a lot (or cut, or both) to fit the same size tires as will fit on a WT with little or no height change. Some seek out the lifted look ... however, it does make your COG considerably higher, makes entering and exiting the Jeep difficult or impossible for many, and can introduce tracking, stability and durability issues that weren't present before lifting. Thus yes, there are differences in terms of capability, specifically related to choice of tire size.

Also, IMO you are much more likely to run into a situation where you run out of traction because of tire size, way more often than you encounter a place where a NT will fit through and a WT won't. Depends on the trails you choose.

However, IMO this is a matter of degree, and only valid when comparing under identical circumstances. Maybe it's obvious (and not too preachy), but you cannot get to a configuration that will be optimal under all circumstances for all owners under all conditions.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by fulsizjeep »

I like a lower COG. That's why I cut to get 33s on my GW (4" lift) and again later for 35s (5" lift). As a NT driver, I can tell the difference when I drive a WT. Especially if it's the J20. It takes a little bit to get used to it when driving a NT most the time. I don't think there is enough difference to really matter on ability until you compare towing a vehicle between a Wag or J20.
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ghcoe
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by ghcoe »

The wide track will articulate better. Just being wider makes a difference, but the extra length of axle past the spring perches will allow more leverage to push the opposite wheel down to the ground better too.
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by Stuka »

The 'S' package was essentially the Chief package put onto a narrow track. All the trim items are nearly the same. Even the badge behind the rear side windows are the same.

Everybody else pretty much got it as far as NT vs WT. A WT with a 4" lift easily fits 33's. A NT requires a 6" lift and some trimming to fit 33's. And then you end up with a taller, narrower vehicle, which is more prone to rolling over. But, an NT with a 4" lift and 31's is a great look and will go most places that people want.
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Santeh
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by Santeh »

Stuka wrote:The 'S' package was essentially the Chief package put onto a narrow track. All the trim items are nearly the same. Even the badge behind the rear side windows are the same.

Everybody else pretty much got it as far as NT vs WT. A WT with a 4" lift easily fits 33's. A NT requires a 6" lift and some trimming to fit 33's. And then you end up with a taller, narrower vehicle, which is more prone to rolling over. But, an NT with a 4" lift and 31's is a great look and will go most places that people want.

Thank you, everyone, for your thoughts. Save for the look I am not sure why I am so fixated on the WT versus NT as both are incredible Jeeps. In the end I went through heck and back to get a Cherokee of which I wanted one as I have a childhood connection to them, as well as that I would like a safer vehicle to both work as a hauler and as a "bug-out" SUV/truck when the next hurricane comes calling.

Even though I really wanted to get a WT, in the SE U.S. finding any SJ Cherokee is practically impossible which is even before trying to find one that is not rusted out. Due to all of this I elected to get a NT that came my way that is virtually rust-free (the mechanics in my area often comment on and seem surprised by this), has a strong 360 V8 now with a FiTech EFI, has a 2-inch lift, and 31X15 mud tires on it. I have contemplated selling it and just shipping a WT, but finding a rust free one seems so very hard and if the NT with a lift and 31" tires is, all-in-all, very similar to a WT it may be too lateral a move. Plus, some of the roads here are indeed tight thus the NT does have its advantage in that respect.

Now, to get comfortable enough to drive it on the freeway. ;)

I really do appreciate everyone's thoughts on the matter!
Last edited by Santeh on Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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ghcoe
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by ghcoe »

It sounds like it was meant to be. Be happy with it. It will serve you well.

At least you can get rear quarter panels to replace rust if you did have it. Rear flairs on a wide track are a pitta if you have rust.

Good luck and see you on the trails. George.
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by BenTaylor »

Show some pics :) that’s the set up I’m looking at for my NT.

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Santeh
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by Santeh »

BenTaylor wrote:Show some pics :) that’s the set up I’m looking at for my NT.
When I got my Jeep I found out that the seller was not honest as there were many problems with the Cherokee and it has taken me almost a year to get it to this point, all of which has been fixing the SUV to make it road worthy. As such, I have not had time to attend to the look, but I am planning on:

-Line X lining the entire interior floor
-Putting in black carpeting in the passenger area after the Line X
-Replacing the front seats with a black Corbaeu Baja RS set; I will also add some new replacement black seat belts
-Adding a center console such as https://wagonmaster.com/collections/par ... -cupholder
-Adding a proper roof/tire rack such as http://www.bjsoffroad.com/50x60-Safari- ... _1217.html
-Adding a grill guard such as http://www.bjsoffroad.com/Killer32-Winc ... _1105.html
-Adding some fog lights as Florida has its moments
-Not sure if I am going to repaint and re-decal or just re-clear coat after tending to the surface issues. My wife says she likes the original look but I think it might be nice to freshen the Jeep up.

As such, given another 6-12 months the Jeep should look very different than when I got it. As the Cherokee is currently in the shop, I can only affix a few pictures which naturally do not include the above items. The major noticeable changes were the FiTech EFI, the Davis distributor, changing the grill, and the installation of the black interior door trim. Here is a link to some pictures:

https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipN ... RhTUo0ZV9n

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts, especially regarding the above additions I am thinking of making.
Last edited by Santeh on Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by SJTD »

Fog?

Used to go to FL quite a bit. Driving from Orlando to the Cape I never hit fog but there was rain that made heavy fog seem like a clear day.
Sic friatur crustulum

'84 GW with Nissan SD33T, early Chev NV4500, 300, narrowed Ford reverse 44, narrowed Ford 60, SOA/reversed shackle in fornt, lowered mount/flipped shackle in rear.

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Santeh
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by Santeh »

SJTD wrote:Fog?

Used to go to FL quite a bit. Driving from Orlando to the Cape I never hit fog but there was rain that made heavy fog seem like a clear day.
Yep, we get both. The fog usually is not too bad, but on some nights/mornings it can be heavy enough. The rain, though, can indeed be impressive!
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tgreese
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by tgreese »

I like the weathered exterior, and the color. The rust on the hood is from too much polishing and too much sun. The paint has just worn out. A good, honest appearance, and that style is very popular currently. Search for some articles about preserving automotive "patina." You could try to buff it out more and see how much shine is left - likely it will come back a lot. It has the razor grille now? The rhino-chaser grille and pie plates are worth some money. Looks better with the razor grille. You need the hood bar to make it look right.
Tim Reese
Maine beekeeper's truck: '77 J10 LWB, 258/T15/D20/3.54 bone stock, low options (delete radio), PS/PDB, hubcaps.
Browless and proud: '82 J20 360/T18/NP208/3.73, Destination A/Ts, 7600 GVWR
Copper Polly: '75 CJ-6, 304/T15, PS, BFG KM2s, soft top
GTI without the badges: '95 VW Golf Sport 2000cc 2D
Dual Everything: '15 Chryco Jeep Cherokee KL Trailhawk, ECO Green
Blockchain the vote.

Topic author
Santeh
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Re: Narrow vs. Wide Track FSJ Use?

Post by Santeh »

tgreese wrote:I like the weathered exterior, and the color. The rust on the hood is from too much polishing and too much sun. The paint has just worn out. A good, honest appearance, and that style is very popular currently. Search for some articles about preserving automotive "patina." You could try to buff it out more and see how much shine is left - likely it will come back a lot. It has the razor grille now? The rhino-chaser grille and pie plates are worth some money. Looks better with the razor grille. You need the hood bar to make it look right.
I think my wife would certainly agree on the "patina" look! To be honest, after all the other items to add/upgrade on the Jeep I am not sure I could even afford a proper paint job! Lol! Sadly I could only find the hood bar in white, thus it will be mismatched to the rest of the Cherokee. Then again, perhaps I will just name my Jeep "El Blanco". :D

I am also not a Rhino grill fan so I replaced it with the original razor grill which I also agree looks much better. :)
1978 Jeep Cherokee S; 5.9L/360 V8 automatic/FiTech fuel injection and Davis Unified Distributor systems.
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