Soon to be Retired Man Seeks Out Proper Rig

[twisty]

I will likely retire in 2 or 3 years so planning ahead. I have a very nice setup 97 Wrangler that I used to hard core with but lost interest in it when I started dirt biking. I still use it for exploring but with more then two people it just runs out of room for even the smallest outing, big trips are out of the question unless I tow my jeep trailer.

My plan to celebrate my retirement is a road trip to Alaska with my college age son. I'm searching for a capable COMFORTABLE rig that I can depend on. The choices are new rubi 4 door, 92-96 full size bronco, 87-91 blazer, and now grand wagoneer. Never even thought of waggy as a choice but looking into it a tad shows it may be the best of em.

I never realized just how nice the interiors are on these things. Also some of the pricing on the nicer ones are pretty high. Still, it may be worth it.

I would want the rig to be reasonably capable which means, a lift, bigger tires, and armor. I know my TJ has amazing off road comfort with aired down 35's, long arm suspension, and newer gas rancho 9000s. Can the wagoneer have a plush ride with a lift kit on? I'm in my 60s so this becomes more and more important. lol

The problem with my bronco and blazer choices are the removable top. I want to put up one of those tents that pop up and mounting it on the wagoneer looks easier IF it can handle the weight. Can it?

Thanks for any input, I know I'm starting early but kind of fun getting ready for it.

[fulsizjeep]

Welcome! I just retired at the beginning of the year and have enjoyed some trips with my Wagoneer already. Good Luck!

Check these FSJ roof rack braces out. They should do the trick for you. My wife and I have them on both our Wagoneers.
http://www.ttsfabworks.com/ttimages/sto ... races.html

As for lift, SOA the front and shackle flip in the back and use stock springs. That will net you 5-6" of lift. A 6" spring lift is very stiff. A 4" spring lift is moderately stiff. TTs has a solution for the SOA spring perches and shackle flip.
http://ttsfabworks.com

[tgreese]

Wagoneers are great - but the word has been out for more than a decade, and the really nice ones sell for a lot of money today. Plus I'm not sure it fits the profile you describe so well. Much of their appeal is their nostalgic look and feel ... the design dates back to almost 1960, and it did not evolve a lot over the decades.

I would suggest the WJ Grand Cherokee or the Nissan XTerra as an alternative. The 1999-2004 WJ was the last live axle version of the Grand Cherokee, and Jeep made a lot of them. The basic models are cheap on the used market, at least around here. Look around and wait, and you will find a really nice one. Get a Laredo WJ with the 4.0L engine, replace the axles with the gerotor axles from a Quadradrive WJ (perhaps the best passive 4WD system ever devised - about $1K for the pair from a junkyard), and rebuild the 42RE transmission, and you'll have a very capable, reliable and comfortable rig. Lifts are readily available and similar to the Wrangler in design.

The Jeepforum WJ forum has a helpful buyers guide - http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/ult ... e-1271979/ and the WJ forum there is quite active and helpful.

[Lumpskie]

Where are you located? I love my wagoneer and I have a good ride on mine. But, like tgreese mentioned, prices in the north east are pretty high. Out west, they can still be had for decent prices, if you look. How "built" are you looking to go with your rig?

[twisty]

Welcome! I just retired at the beginning of the year and have enjoyed some trips with my Wagoneer already. Good Luck!

Check these FSJ roof rack braces out. They should do the trick for you. My wife and I have them on both our Wagoneers.
http://www.ttsfabworks.com/ttimages/sto ... races.html

As for lift, SOA the front and shackle flip in the back and use stock springs. That will net you 5-6" of lift. A 6" spring lift is very stiff. A 4" spring lift is moderately stiff. TTs has a solution for the SOA spring perches and shackle flip.
http://ttsfabworks.com

Great info THANKS!

[twisty]

Wagoneers are great - but the word has been out for more than a decade, and the really nice ones sell for a lot of money today. Plus I'm not sure it fits the profile you describe so well. Much of their appeal is their nostalgic look and feel ... the design dates back to almost 1960, and it did not evolve a lot over the decades.

I would suggest the WJ Grand Cherokee or the Nissan XTerra as an alternative. The 1999-2004 WJ was the last live axle version of the Grand Cherokee, and Jeep made a lot of them. The basic models are cheap on the used market, at least around here. Look around and wait, and you will find a really nice one. Get a Laredo WJ with the 4.0L engine, replace the axles with the gerotor axles from a Quadradrive WJ (perhaps the best passive 4WD system ever devised - about $1K for the pair from a junkyard), and rebuild the 42RE transmission, and you'll have a very capable, reliable and comfortable rig. Lifts are readily available and similar to the Wrangler in design.

The Jeepforum WJ forum has a helpful buyers guide - http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/ult ... e-1271979/ and the WJ forum there is quite active and helpful.

Yeah, I mentioned the pricing on them. I really like them, at least in pics, havent seen one up close. I dont know that I care about it evolving depending on how you mean that??

You do provide another choice that just goes to show you I am just beginning in this process. I just checked craigs list on the years you mentioned with the grand cherokee. REALLY REALLY nice ones for CHEAP! Curious why the 4.0 motor vs the available 4.7. I have the 4.0 in my wrangler and while it's great for offroad it's rather doggy on the hiway...even with 4.56's.

Never heard of gerotor axles or QUADRADRIVE. I will look into them, THANKS!

[twisty]

Where are you located? I love my wagoneer and I have a good ride on mine. But, like tgreese mentioned, prices in the north east are pretty high. Out west, they can still be had for decent prices, if you look. How "built" are you looking to go with your rig?

They are cool looking and very distinct.

I'm in the Phoenix area.

I want the rig to be reasonably capable. Thinking 33's minimum. Lockers, winch, armor all around. This isnt going to be for rock crawling, just built for most things that come up in the middle of nowhere. I normally run solo so it has to be super reliable.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

I'd go with the JK Unlimited. Use it for your trip, sell it, buy a waggy to toodle around in locally. Less worries about a break down somewhere.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[rapom]

Super Reliable is not a Wagoneer's strong suit. The real high dollar ones with Ls engines, and better wiring harnesses, etc... are what you are going to have to look at. Wagonmaster, or Icon could build you one.

[will e]

Hey! Welcome from Phoenix! There a quite a few of us here in town and in Tucson. I'll keep my eyes out for a rig for ya. You might even get a chance to ride in a few examples of different lift types.

[dodgerammit]

Super Reliable is not a Wagoneer's strong suit. The real high dollar ones with Ls engines, and better wiring harnesses, etc... are what you are going to have to look at. Wagonmaster, or Icon could build you one.

Not true.

Reliability can be had with some electrical fixes (rear window, door locks, and door windows) and some mild engine tweaks (electric fuel pump, tfi upgrade, msd ignition, or all of those with efi). No need to spend $60-100K for a decent Wag. I have about $5500 in mine and it runs like a top. My wife and I cruise it nearly every time we go out. 100-120 mile trips are the norm.

For me, the biggest thing is rust free. Engine mods and electrical work go hand in hand when buying a "new to you" Waggy.

[dodgerammit]

Also, if not rock crawling, why lockers? True tracs are awesome for most anything other than lifting a wheel off of the ground. Even in stock form, these things aren't bad.

And also armor is generally installed for rock crawling. Confused why you need more than some decent bumpers?

[dodgerammit]

You do provide another choice that just goes to show you I am just beginning in this process. I just checked craigs list on the years you mentioned with the grand cherokee. REALLY REALLY nice ones for CHEAP! Curious why the 4.0 motor vs the available 4.7. I have the 4.0 in my wrangler and while it's great for offroad it's rather doggy on the hiway...even with 4.56's.

Never heard of gerotor axles or QUADRADRIVE. I will look into them, THANKS!

You want reliable, steer clear of a 4.7. If you want more power, then step up to the first few years the Hemi returned. Go with one without cylinder deactivation.

[tedlovesjeeps71]

Super Reliable is not a Wagoneer's strong suit. The real high dollar ones with Ls engines, and better wiring harnesses, etc... are what you are going to have to look at. Wagonmaster, or Icon could build you one.

Not true.

Reliability can be had with some electrical fixes (rear window, door locks, and door windows) and some mild engine tweaks (electric fuel pump, tfi upgrade, msd ignition, or all of those with efi). No need to spend $60-100K for a decent Wag. I have about $5500 in mine and it runs like a top. My wife and I cruise it nearly every time we go out. 100-120 mile trips are the norm.

For me, the biggest thing is rust free. Engine mods and electrical work go hand in hand when buying a "new to you" Waggy.

My reason for suggesting the JK is parts availability. While we all try to make our FSJs reliable, they are old and things break or wear out. If he's going into Alaska and has even something small like a fuel pump go out, it could be a wait for someone to get a replacement part delivered. And while even a newer jeep can require emergency repairs up there, it's more likely that the parts could be found quickly as they aren't 25 years old (or older).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dodgerammit]

Super Reliable is not a Wagoneer's strong suit. The real high dollar ones with Ls engines, and better wiring harnesses, etc... are what you are going to have to look at. Wagonmaster, or Icon could build you one.

Not true.

Reliability can be had with some electrical fixes (rear window, door locks, and door windows) and some mild engine tweaks (electric fuel pump, tfi upgrade, msd ignition, or all of those with efi). No need to spend $60-100K for a decent Wag. I have about $5500 in mine and it runs like a top. My wife and I cruise it nearly every time we go out. 100-120 mile trips are the norm.

For me, the biggest thing is rust free. Engine mods and electrical work go hand in hand when buying a "new to you" Waggy.

My reason for suggesting the JK is parts availability. While we all try to make our FSJs reliable, they are old and things break or wear out. If he's going into Alaska and has even something small like a fuel pump go out, it could be a wait for someone to get a replacement part delivered. And while even a newer jeep can require emergency repairs up there, it's more likely that the parts could be found quickly as they aren't 25 years old (or older).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wasn't disputing the JK As far as being the closest to what he is wanting, power, solid axles, lift kits, etc, the JK is it. I'm not a huge fan, but for the OP, it would be a viable route. They can even come from the factory with lockers I believe. At least at one time they could be had that way. Any other vehicle is going to require some serious modding.

I was simply stating the myth of needing an LS swapped or Icon built Wagoneer for reliability. I run a ford low pressure in-tank pump, TFI cap/rotor, coil, and plug wires that are available at the parts stores. I avoided buying specialty stuff other than the MSD streetfire box just for this reason. Some parts stores even have the MSD 6AL module in stock in the unlikely event of a failure.

As far as being in Alaska, there are areas where it would require a wait if anything broke on any vehicle.

That being said, you would be wise to carry common repair items and a few tools on an overlanding trip no matter what you are driving.

[tgreese]

Wagoneers are great - but the word has been out for more than a decade, and the really nice ones sell for a lot of money today. Plus I'm not sure it fits the profile you describe so well. Much of their appeal is their nostalgic look and feel ... the design dates back to almost 1960, and it did not evolve a lot over the decades.

I would suggest the WJ Grand Cherokee or the Nissan XTerra as an alternative. The 1999-2004 WJ was the last live axle version of the Grand Cherokee, and Jeep made a lot of them. The basic models are cheap on the used market, at least around here. Look around and wait, and you will find a really nice one. Get a Laredo WJ with the 4.0L engine, replace the axles with the gerotor axles from a Quadradrive WJ (perhaps the best passive 4WD system ever devised - about $1K for the pair from a junkyard), and rebuild the 42RE transmission, and you'll have a very capable, reliable and comfortable rig. Lifts are readily available and similar to the Wrangler in design.

The Jeepforum WJ forum has a helpful buyers guide - http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/ult ... e-1271979/ and the WJ forum there is quite active and helpful.

Yeah, I mentioned the pricing on them. I really like them, at least in pics, havent seen one up close. I dont know that I care about it evolving depending on how you mean that??

Well, everyone has their opinion about this, but I think that older cars are significantly less corrosion resistant than newer ones, and Jeeps were near the bottom in this respect. Jeeps from that era had good and reliable drivetrains, but all the supporting systems were poor in quality. For example, look at the number of threads about tailgate windows. Typical. Performance and economy are better with newer cars, and emissions requirements impact them less. Look at a vacuum diagram for for a tail-end GW. Anyway, modern fuel injection is vastly more reliable than any carburetor. Ask me how many carburetors I've rebuilt. Suspension has improved a lot even with live axles - coil springs just ride better than leaf springs, and they allow the wheels to be much closer to the corners of the cars. This improves the polar moment for a given size, as well as significantly improving approach and departure angles. Up to you to decide what you want. At the very least, follow the 37% rule.

You do provide another choice that just goes to show you I am just beginning in this process. I just checked craigs list on the years you mentioned with the grand cherokee. REALLY REALLY nice ones for CHEAP! Curious why the 4.0 motor vs the available 4.7. I have the 4.0 in my wrangler and while it's great for offroad it's rather doggy on the hiway...even with 4.56's.

Well, opinion on the 4.7 is mixed. It seems they have a problem with dropping valve seats, but that may be linked to overheating. IMO you're better off without a lot of the doodads that come with the high-end models. However, you're never going to get Quadradrive with the base model Laredo, so it's a trade-off. There are Laredos out there with the 4.7 if that's what you want. The Buyer's Guide I linked to above provides quite a lot of background on these vehicles.

Never heard of gerotor axles or QUADRADRIVE. I will look into them, THANKS!

NP! The axles with gerotors are called Varilock, and they are part of the Quadradrive package offered on the high-end WJ models. They are cool because they are part of the full-time system, and will supply power to the wheel opposite a hanging wheel, like a locker. Good street manners though. If you search, the patent application for the Quadradrive can be found online, and it describes how the transfer case and axles work. Interesting. The top end model WJ will be an Overland with the hotter 4.7 HO and Quadradrive. They are out there, and inexpensive compared to the money asked for the cream puff GWs.

[twisty]

Also, if not rock crawling, why lockers? True tracs are awesome for most anything other than lifting a wheel off of the ground. Even in stock form, these things aren't bad.

And also armor is generally installed for rock crawling. Confused why you need more than some decent bumpers?

Lockers are amazing and I am sold on them. In AZ and in the west in general we have rocks everywhere. I'd want a tank skid, and rocker panel skid, maybe even the rear lower corner panel area.

[twisty]

Hey! Welcome from Phoenix! There a quite a few of us here in town and in Tucson. I'll keep my eyes out for a rig for ya. You might even get a chance to ride in a few examples of different lift types.

Thanks and that would be great!

[twisty]

Super Reliable is not a Wagoneer's strong suit. The real high dollar ones with Ls engines, and better wiring harnesses, etc... are what you are going to have to look at. Wagonmaster, or Icon could build you one.

Not true.

Reliability can be had with some electrical fixes (rear window, door locks, and door windows) and some mild engine tweaks (electric fuel pump, tfi upgrade, msd ignition, or all of those with efi). No need to spend $60-100K for a decent Wag. I have about $5500 in mine and it runs like a top. My wife and I cruise it nearly every time we go out. 100-120 mile trips are the norm.

For me, the biggest thing is rust free. Engine mods and electrical work go hand in hand when buying a "new to you" Waggy.

My reason for suggesting the JK is parts availability. While we all try to make our FSJs reliable, they are old and things break or wear out. If he's going into Alaska and has even something small like a fuel pump go out, it could be a wait for someone to get a replacement part delivered. And while even a newer jeep can require emergency repairs up there, it's more likely that the parts could be found quickly as they aren't 25 years old (or older).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Good post. I've been to alaska before in my full size bronco back in 95. I just hit the border of Yukon when my check engine light came on and the truck ran crappy. I arrived in Anchorage and tried to make an appointment to get it fixed at the dealership and there was a 2 week wait. So even a modern rig with parts availability doesnt mean all that much. lol When you are up there it just isnt the same and a good dose of preparation along with some luck is key.

I made it home in az and it ended up being a stupid sensor that went bad. lol

[twisty]

Wagoneers are great - but the word has been out for more than a decade, and the really nice ones sell for a lot of money today. Plus I'm not sure it fits the profile you describe so well. Much of their appeal is their nostalgic look and feel ... the design dates back to almost 1960, and it did not evolve a lot over the decades.

I would suggest the WJ Grand Cherokee or the Nissan XTerra as an alternative. The 1999-2004 WJ was the last live axle version of the Grand Cherokee, and Jeep made a lot of them. The basic models are cheap on the used market, at least around here. Look around and wait, and you will find a really nice one. Get a Laredo WJ with the 4.0L engine, replace the axles with the gerotor axles from a Quadradrive WJ (perhaps the best passive 4WD system ever devised - about $1K for the pair from a junkyard), and rebuild the 42RE transmission, and you'll have a very capable, reliable and comfortable rig. Lifts are readily available and similar to the Wrangler in design.

The Jeepforum WJ forum has a helpful buyers guide - http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f310/ult ... e-1271979/ and the WJ forum there is quite active and helpful.

Yeah, I mentioned the pricing on them. I really like them, at least in pics, havent seen one up close. I dont know that I care about it evolving depending on how you mean that??

Well, everyone has their opinion about this, but I think that older cars are significantly less corrosion resistant than newer ones, and Jeeps were near the bottom in this respect. Jeeps from that era had good and reliable drivetrains, but all the supporting systems were poor in quality. For example, look at the number of threads about tailgate windows. Typical. Performance and economy are better with newer cars, and emissions requirements impact them less. Look at a vacuum diagram for for a tail-end GW. Anyway, modern fuel injection is vastly more reliable than any carburetor. Ask me how many carburetors I've rebuilt. Suspension has improved a lot even with live axles - coil springs just ride better than leaf springs, and they allow the wheels to be much closer to the corners of the cars. This improves the polar moment for a given size, as well as significantly improving approach and departure angles. Up to you to decide what you want. At the very least, follow the 37% rule.

You do provide another choice that just goes to show you I am just beginning in this process. I just checked craigs list on the years you mentioned with the grand cherokee. REALLY REALLY nice ones for CHEAP! Curious why the 4.0 motor vs the available 4.7. I have the 4.0 in my wrangler and while it's great for offroad it's rather doggy on the hiway...even with 4.56's.

Well, opinion on the 4.7 is mixed. It seems they have a problem with dropping valve seats, but that may be linked to overheating. IMO you're better off without a lot of the doodads that come with the high-end models. However, you're never going to get Quadradrive with the base model Laredo, so it's a trade-off. There are Laredos out there with the 4.7 if that's what you want. The Buyer's Guide I linked to above provides quite a lot of background on these vehicles.

Never heard of gerotor axles or QUADRADRIVE. I will look into them, THANKS!

NP! The axles with gerotors are called Varilock, and they are part of the Quadradrive package offered on the high-end WJ models. They are cool because they are part of the full-time system, and will supply power to the wheel opposite a hanging wheel, like a locker. Good street manners though. If you search, the patent application for the Quadradrive can be found online, and it describes how the transfer case and axles work. Interesting. The top end model WJ will be an Overland with the hotter 4.7 HO and Quadradrive. They are out there, and inexpensive compared to the money asked for the cream puff GWs.

Again great info. I read the buyers guide, good stuff!