1984 Grand Wagoneer needs some lovin'...

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deckroid
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1984 Grand Wagoneer needs some lovin'...

Post by deckroid »

Hey,

Over the last couple of months, my GW has been getting harder and harder to start. Oh, she starts. Eventually. Usually takes 4 to 6 cranks, drains the battery then va-ROOM. Belts squeal, meter shoots to 60, and it runs and we're good to go. Turn it off and it does the SAME thing. Well, minus the belts squawking. After she starts and it runs a bit the meter goes back to just a bit past 0 on the right. Like normal. I was getting worried that my Alt was dying, so I checked the battery while running, 14.7. I checked the CCH on my load tester... says it's good.

Then today I went to start her up and the starter would not stop cranking. I hopped out and disconnected the battery and that is where I am now. So I have thought of a few things it could be... and in no particular order:

** Starter
** Solenoid
** Alternator
** ?????

I know I have a trickle power loss ... somewhere... but I don't think this has alot to do with my starting issue due to the fact that prior to July, she always started on the 2nd or 3rd crank. However, I just got a new voltmeter this past weekend (after my nephew's YJ decided to commit seppuku on a trail) and was going to run though some things this coming weekend.

Any ideas would be awesome!
Thanks!

1984 Grand Wagoneer, 360, rebuilt carb 9 months ago, new belts around February, Serhill's wiring harness (RIP) and mostly stock.
1984 Grand Wagoneer. V8 360 stock. Mostly original. Repainted 2018 with original Nordic Green Metallic (Flake).
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fulsizjeep
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Re: 1984 Grand Wagoneer needs some lovin'...

Post by fulsizjeep »

I would be examining the wiring harness from alternator back to the firewall. If it is still in a loom, remove and inspect wires. I had similar issue with a J20 and the yellow wire had melted against the wire for starter solenoid. It was also source for a trickle down on battery.
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rocklaurence
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Re: 1984 Grand Wagoneer needs some lovin'...

Post by rocklaurence »

I've seen this. Its low voltage on the battery. The low voltage causes the AMPs to go high [less potential difference=higher amps to do the same work] and it welds the solenod shut. So, replace the solenoid and the battery. Get the highest CCA that will fit--I like the AGM batteries because the dont Gas.

will e
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Re: 1984 Grand Wagoneer needs some lovin'...

Post by will e »

You have a mulitmeter so first things first. To confirm if the solenoid is stuck do an ohm reading across the large posts.
If it isn't stuck shut, disconnect the starter cable and reconnect the battery. Check if you have voltage at the small post next to the large 'battery' post on the solenoid. You should not. If you do you have a short or the ignition switch is jacked. If you don't have someone turn the key to 'crank' and check the voltage again while they are holding it on 'crank'. You should hear the solenoid engauge and get voltage on the small post as well as the large 'starter' post.
If you don't have a short and the ignition seems to be working correctly then replace the solenoid.

The original cranking problem is probably a fuel drain or weak mechanical pump. Your starting procedure should be to turn the ignition to the 'run' location. Push the gas all the way to the floor then release. Crank.
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deckroid
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Re: 1984 Grand Wagoneer needs some lovin'...

Post by deckroid »

Did some checking and the solenoid was bad. Replaced that and ordered another starter just for good measure. The wire from the solenoid to the starter looks like someone hacked it up and fixed it with electricians tape. Twice.

Image

Image

Image

Now I am concerned with the metal shavings found inside the starter! Fly wheel? Hoo boy... and the hits just keep on comin'.

I also checked the wiring harness and someone hacked the bajeezus out the wiring. Does anyone have a good pic of what connects to the solenoid? I took a before pic to make sure things go back to where they were, but good gravy, there are connectors that are not hooked up to the solenoid and just hand loose. I noticed this a while back when installing Serhill's headlight wiring harness. Anyone got anything not blocked by photobucket?

Tomorrow I follow wires thru the firewall.
1984 Grand Wagoneer. V8 360 stock. Mostly original. Repainted 2018 with original Nordic Green Metallic (Flake).
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deckroid
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Location: The Sticks, Idaho

GAAAA!!!!!

Post by deckroid »

Okie Dokie.

I have now changed out the starter, starter solenoid, wire to the starter from the solenoid, the ignition switch. (Dropped the steering column which wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. Now there's LOTS of space for me to poke around... ) And the battery is reading 12.6.

When the battery is reconnected, it tries to start up even key off, locked and out of ignition. I now am in possession of a new multimeter, a Klein MM600, but to tell you the truth, I haven't used one beyond battery checks since the early 90s. If anyone has ideas, tips, info... heck, at this point I would take a fortune cookie riddle if it got the job done... I would greatly appreciate it.
1984 Grand Wagoneer. V8 360 stock. Mostly original. Repainted 2018 with original Nordic Green Metallic (Flake).

rocklaurence
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Re: 1984 Grand Wagoneer needs some lovin'...

Post by rocklaurence »

There are two wires that energize the solenoid--Run & Start. With the ignition off neither of the two should be hot. So, take both of them off the solenoid to see if that prevents it from Running Away. If removing those two wires stops it from starting, then trace out the one that is hot with the ignition off.
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deckroid
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Re: 1984 Grand Wagoneer needs some lovin'...

Post by deckroid »

That would mean a there is a short somewhere, right? Holy mackerel this is quite a process. But fun! :D :D :D :D :D

Yeah, I was swearing at the previous owner(s) about some stuff today. (Duct tape??? DUCT TAPE?!?!) And yeah, I was calling into question my dream of fixing everything on this Jeep myself (except Carbs... I have never been able to wrap my brain around the magic that is gas/air mixture)

It was a nice fall day, sun was out all day, blue sky... The beer was cold after the day was over... not too shabby. Had to make 4 runs to NAPA, but...
1984 Grand Wagoneer. V8 360 stock. Mostly original. Repainted 2018 with original Nordic Green Metallic (Flake).
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REDONE
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Re: 1984 Grand Wagoneer needs some lovin'...

Post by REDONE »

The factory used duct tape on the wiring splices, so don't come down too hard on the PO. ;)
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